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Special states
by Gregor Hagedorn 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

Before finishing the Paris minutes, I have just finished the last remaining bit from Brazil. On the last day we discussed special states, which was not really in the minutes released before Paris. I have written it as a separate document and have tried to work through some of the issues and scenarios we touched upon in Brazil. These include character scoping, default or implicit states, inheritance from taxonomic hierarchy, and a bit on character dependency. The result is a bit lengthy, but it did help _me_ a lot. I hope that the document can be pruned down when some parts can be moved elsewhere. I would love get your comments and feedback. Either sent them to the list, or if you have small corrections to help me you can write them into the document (Bob already did a first review helping to remove the worst logic and language errors!) and send it back to me. It is available at: http://160.45.63.11/Projects/TDWG- SDD/Docs/SDD_P_Data_SpecialStates.html Thanks Gregor ---------------------------------------------------------- Gregor Hagedorn (G.Hagedorn(a)bba.de) Institute for Plant Virology, Microbiology, and Biosafety Federal Research Center for Agriculture and Forestry (BBA) Koenigin-Luise-Str. 19 Tel: +49-30-8304-2220 14195 Berlin, Germany Fax: +49-30-8304-2203 Often wrong but never in doubt!

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Re: Correct term for collating/summarizing/consolidating/inferring from below
by unknown＠example.com 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

{Sorry for the delay in contributing this, I've been away the past few days.) In BioLink, we have the following options/commands: Compile with the options to: Compile Once Always Compile From Children Refresh Compile Inherit with the options to: Inherit Once Always Inherit From Parent Refresh Inherit We do this independently for each cell or attribute (that is, for each character for each taxon/item, or for each character by taxon/item intersection). This way you can build a full description by compiling some characters from children while inheriting other characters from the parent. We allow you to either regenerate these data automatically (by selecting the "Always Compile/Inherit from Children/Parent" command) or to create a static copy of the data so you can fine-tune it by manually inserting comments and clarifications (with the danger that changes to children/parents will not be reflected). Our hope is that by including the phrases "from children" and "from parent" in the commands that we can make the actions of these commands clear without having to resort to looking these terms up in the help files or, worse, a dictionary. Steve Shattuck CSIRO Entomology steve.shattuck(a)csiro.au

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Re: Correct term for collating/summarizing/consolidating/inferring from below
by ben moretti 12 Mar '03

12 Mar '03

On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 10:14 PM, Guillaume Rousse wrote: > Ainsi parlait Sauvenay Guillaume : >> Kevin Thiele wrote: >>> Consider this in the real world. If I have a number of descriptions >>> of >>> species, and from them I want to create a genus description, then I >>> would /collate/ the genus description from the species descriptions. >>> /Compile/ and /aggregate/ would also work, but I think collate works >>> better. I would call it "abstract". Rather like one creates an abstract data type in programming, or one can also create objects that are abstract representations, or models, of real-world things. Cheers Ben -- ben moretti bmoretti(a)chariot.net.au http://www.chariot.net.au/~bmoretti

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Re: Correct term for collating/summarizing/consolidating/inferring from below
by Gregor Hagedorn 12 Mar '03

12 Mar '03

> For me inference, induction, deduction sound like specific > methodologies, whereas collate, aggregate and compile correspond to > the generic process. In other words, you can collate/aggregate/compile > either by inference, by induction, or by deduction. I feel uneasy about calling the inheritance or deduction process an "aggregation" or "compilation". That may be a language point. Also I would think: induction = parent properties inferred from multiple children deduction = child properties inferred from (direct or remote) parents What then would your definition of "inference" as a third specific methodology be? > BTW, if the collate/aggregate/compile processs can be formalised and > at least expressed as a recomendation in the standard, it becomes > useless to store its result as it can be reproduced. Yes and no. Or Perhaps...? I think we need to explore this up/down topic on the taxonomic tree. Some information you want to inherit (i.e. child inherits from parten), other characters you don't because there is you know the character is too variable. You also want to contradict, but that is probably automatic if you enter data. However, if you enter data in a character downwards, you probably want the collation/Inheritance process to stop, the new data replace things for the entire character. In induction: You may have data about 100 specimen. 99 have states 1 or 2, 1 has state 3. You may want to remove state 3 from the aggregation process. Also: you may have a family where states 1 and 2 can be inferred by aggregation/induction/collation from below. You know however this family has also members with state 4 (which are otherwise not in you dataset). Should the aggregation break or should it be possible to add state 4 and keep 1 and 2 by aggregation/induction? Perhaps the process of making informed scientific decisions should be called the collation process. The algorithmic methods could be called aggregation = induction of knowledge inheritance = deduction of knowledge ??? Gregor ---------------------------------------------------------- Gregor Hagedorn (G.Hagedorn(a)bba.de) Institute for Plant Virology, Microbiology, and Biosafety Federal Research Center for Agriculture and Forestry (BBA) Koenigin-Luise-Str. 19 Tel: +49-30-8304-2220 14195 Berlin, Germany Fax: +49-30-8304-2203 Often wrong but never in doubt!

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Re: Correct term for collating/summarizing/consolidating/inferring from below
by Guillaume Rousse 12 Mar '03

12 Mar '03

Ainsi parlait Sauvenay Guillaume : > Kevin Thiele wrote: > > Consider this in the real world. If I have a number of descriptions of > > species, and from them I want to create a genus description, then I > > would /collate/ the genus description from the species descriptions. > > /Compile/ and /aggregate/ would also work, but I think collate works > > better. > > couldn't we call that induction? > here is a definition : > "Induction is the process of inference employed in "inductive logic". > A mode of reasoning that starts with specific facts and concludes > general hypotheses or theories" > > here, species descriptions are observed fact and genus description is > inducted > > and this term is less general than infer For me inference, induction, deduction sound like specific methodologies, whereas collate, aggregate and compile correspond to the generic process. In other words, you can collate/aggregate/compile either by inference, by induction, or by deduction. BTW, if the collate/aggregate/compile processs can be formalised and at least expressed as a recomendation in the standard, it becomes useless to store its result as it can be reproduced. -- When you finally buy enough memory, you will not have enough disk space. -- Murphy's Computer Laws n°3

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Re: Correct term for collating/summarizing/consolidating/inferring from below
by Kevin Thiele 12 Mar '03

12 Mar '03

Consider this in the real world. If I have a number of descriptions of species, and from them I want to create a genus description, then I would collate the genus description from the species descriptions. Compile and aggregate would also work, but I think collate works better. Cheers - k ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregor Hagedorn" <G.Hagedorn(a)BBA.DE> To: <TDWG-SDD(a)USOBI.ORG> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 4:38 AM Subject: Correct term for collating/summarizing/consolidating/inferring from below | (While I am still working on the Paris minutes and related documents, | I would like to raise a minor point:) | | What term should we use for the process of inferring and collecting | information from multiple descriptions into a generated description? | Bob raised the point that "collation" may be inappropriate or | misleading. | | Please take a look at: | | http://160.45.63.11/Projects/TDWG- | SDD/Docs/SDD_P_InferenceCorrectTerm.html | | and send your comments to the list! | | thanks, Gregor | ---------------------------------------------------------- | Gregor Hagedorn (G.Hagedorn(a)bba.de) | Institute for Plant Virology, Microbiology, and Biosafety | Federal Research Center for Agriculture and Forestry (BBA) | Koenigin-Luise-Str. 19 Tel: +49-30-8304-2220 | 14195 Berlin, Germany Fax: +49-30-8304-2203 | | Often wrong but never in doubt!

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Re: Correct term for collating/summarizing/consolidating/inferring from below
by Peter Rauch 12 Mar '03

12 Mar '03

If "inducing" (not "inducting") a genus concept ("description") is unacceptable, then how about "synthesizing" a genus description ("concept") from the data garnered from the to-be-included species definitions (concepts)? (And, do other "related" genera/species influence one's thinking in the formulation of this new genus's concept/description too?) Peter On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sauvenay Guillaume wrote: > Kevin Thiele wrote: > > > Consider this in the real world. If I have a number of > > descriptions of species, and from them I want to create a > > genus description, then I would /collate/ the genus > > description from the species descriptions. /Compile/ and > > /aggregate/ would also work, but I think collate works > > better. > > couldn't we call that induction? > here is a definition : > "Induction is the process of inference employed in "inductive > logic". A mode of reasoning that starts with specific facts > and concludes general hypotheses or theories" > > here, species descriptions are observed fact and genus > description is inducted and this term is less general than > infer > > Guillaume Sauvenay

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Re: Correct term for collating/summarizing/consolidating/inferring from below
by Sauvenay Guillaume 12 Mar '03

12 Mar '03

Kevin Thiele wrote: > Consider this in the real world. If I have a number of descriptions of > species, and from them I want to create a genus description, then I > would /collate/ the genus description from the species descriptions. > /Compile/ and /aggregate/ would also work, but I think collate works > better. couldn't we call that induction? here is a definition : "Induction is the process of inference employed in "inductive logic". A mode of reasoning that starts with specific facts and concludes general hypotheses or theories" here, species descriptions are observed fact and genus description is inducted and this term is less general than infer Guillaume Sauvenay Université Pierre et Marie Curie CEB informatique et Systématique 12 rue Cuvier, esc B, 2e et 75005 Paris, France tel: 01.44.27.65.21 ou 01.44.27.65.22 fax: 01.44.27.65.60 http://lis.snv.jussieu.fr/~sauvenay

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Re: Correct term
by martin grube 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

...consilience might serve a plurilingual world... the mail was intended for Gregor, therefore the accidentual German. martin martin grube wrote: >das Wort (engl.) "consilience" oder "consilation" (aus lat. "consilere") >

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Re: Correct term for collating/summarizing/consolidating/inferringfrom below
by martin grube 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

Ich halte meinen Beitrag nicht für die Liste wert, vielleicht sollte man das Wort (engl.) "consilience" oder "consilation" (aus lat. "consilere") prüfen, ob es besser passt ? martin Gregor Hagedorn schrieb: > (While I am still working on the Paris minutes and related documents, > I would like to raise a minor point:) > > What term should we use for the process of inferring and collecting > information from multiple descriptions into a generated description? > Bob raised the point that "collation" may be inappropriate or > misleading. > > Please take a look at: > > http://160.45.63.11/Projects/TDWG- > SDD/Docs/SDD_P_InferenceCorrectTerm.html > > and send your comments to the list! > > thanks, Gregor > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Gregor Hagedorn (G.Hagedorn(a)bba.de) > Institute for Plant Virology, Microbiology, and Biosafety > Federal Research Center for Agriculture and Forestry (BBA) > Koenigin-Luise-Str. 19 Tel: +49-30-8304-2220 > 14195 Berlin, Germany Fax: +49-30-8304-2203 > > Often wrong but never in doubt! -- Ass. Prof. Mag. Dr. Martin Grube Institut für Botanik Karl-Franzens-Universität Graz Holteigasse 6 A-8010 Graz tel. +43 316 380 5655 od. 8835 fax. +43 316 380 9883

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