October 2011 - tdwg-tag - lists.tdwg.org

Re: [tdwg-tag] TAG meeting notes
by Chuck Miller 24 Oct '11

24 Oct '11

Kevin, Sorry I had to miss about half of the discussion. This document helps me to catch up. I think we have a "Super Architecture" issue for TDWG. I do not understand what the overall model of TDWG standards is. Where are we going? Attempting to follow the threads of TDWG activities and priorities of the 90s through the 00s to the 10s is super difficult. The fundamental premises of TDWG have been thrashed and mashed to the point that I defy anyone to explain it. We have bits and pieces of new "standards" and shards of relics of "standards." We have something like 15 Interest Groups in works! The same problems have been described over and over during the last 25 years with different labels. Until we have some clearer idea of what the heck we're doing, I can see a lot of spinning and resulting dizziness ahead, and probably newer labels for old problems. I think we need to rise above all of it somehow and look down. How? I think we should start by ignoring technologies and go back to fundamentals. Old fashioned modeling of a problem space would be a place to start. We need a "super model" or something. JW's suggestion of inventorying DwC and using that to analyze the overall classes in biodiversity informatics is one method to start, but that implies DwC is biodiversity-informatics-comprehensive and I'm not sure it's there yet. But, it is a place to start. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: tdwg-tag-bounces(a)lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Richards Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 6:32 PM To: Technical Architecture Group mailing list Subject: [tdwg-tag] TAG meeting notes Hi all I have created a google site at https://sites.google.com/site/tdwgtag/ This has one page in it so far for the meeting notes of today and Mondays meetings. Can you review and let me know if anything has been missed or needs to be changed. Let me know if you want access to edit the page and I will give you edit access. Kevin Please consider the environment before printing this email Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the emails. The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz _______________________________________________ tdwg-tag mailing list tdwg-tag(a)lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tag

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Re: [tdwg-tag] TAG meeting notes
by Kevin Richards 21 Oct '11

21 Oct '11

Thanks Ben. Very good points. Most of which, I hope, we intend to implement/do. It is certainly the intention to have TAG members made up of TAG core members, other IG conveners, TG conveners, etc, etc..., so should have a good variety of people within the group. To "understand that process" is another thing, which we are trying hard to deal with, and not absolutely certain how to deal with. Probably things like standards development guidelines, best practices, how to apply standards back to a "core ontology" ... Kevin ________________________________________ From: Richardson, Ben [Ben.Richardson(a)dec.wa.gov.au] Sent: Friday, 21 October 2011 2:56 p.m. To: Kevin Richards Subject: RE: TAG meeting notes Hi Kevin, I favour the approach that we adopted a few years ago, namely publishing documents explaining how to get things done through TDWG (http://www.tdwg.org/standards/status-and-categories/). The task of building a TS, AS, BCP or DS should be run through a group formalised to do that job. TAG members could (should) be in both the TAG as well as other groups (aren't we all?) and can keep the process moving in a group by helping the group understand that process. Cheers, Ben -----Original Message----- From: tdwg-tag-bounces(a)lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Richards Sent: Friday, 21 October 2011 7:32 To: Technical Architecture Group mailing list Subject: [tdwg-tag] TAG meeting notes Hi all I have created a google site at https://sites.google.com/site/tdwgtag/ This has one page in it so far for the meeting notes of today and Mondays meetings. Can you review and let me know if anything has been missed or needs to be changed. Let me know if you want access to edit the page and I will give you edit access. Kevin Please consider the environment before printing this email Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the emails. The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz _______________________________________________ tdwg-tag mailing list tdwg-tag(a)lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tag This email, together with any attachments, is intended for the addressee only. It may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please notify the sender, delete the email and attachments from your system and destroy any copies you may have taken of the email and its attachments. Duplication or further distribution by hardcopy, by electronic means or verbally is not permitted without permission. Please consider the environment before printing this email Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the emails. The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz

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TAG meeting notes
by Kevin Richards 20 Oct '11

20 Oct '11

Hi all I have created a google site at https://sites.google.com/site/tdwgtag/ This has one page in it so far for the meeting notes of today and Mondays meetings. Can you review and let me know if anything has been missed or needs to be changed. Let me know if you want access to edit the page and I will give you edit access. Kevin Please consider the environment before printing this email Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the emails. The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz

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TDWG Challenge - what is RDF good for?
by Roderic Page 19 Oct '11

19 Oct '11

Following on from my earlier rant about RDF I've made some example RDF datasets from a range of data sources which could serve as the basis of a discussion about where we currently stand. Details in this blog post: http://iphylo.blogspot.com/2011/10/tdwg-challenge-what-is-rdf-good-for.html My contention is that as we stand we can barely say anything because the data sources barely overlap in terms of identifiers or vocabulary. I provide some additional files that provide cross-links (e.g., between NCBI and Dbpedia, or between ION and CrossRef). Without such links we are simply making data silos, albeit nice Semantic webby data silos. Regards Rod --------------------------------------------------------- Roderic Page Professor of Taxonomy Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences Graham Kerr Building University of Glasgow Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK Email: r.page(a)bio.gla.ac.uk Tel: +44 141 330 4778 Fax: +44 141 330 2792 AIM: rodpage1962(a)aim.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1112517192 Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdmpage Blog: http://iphylo.blogspot.com Home page: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html

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RDF/OWL Good Practices Task Group
by joel sachs 17 Oct '11

17 Oct '11

Greetings everyone, After some back and forth amongst Steve Baskauf, myself, Greg Whitbread, and the executive, we've decided to move forward with an RDF/OWL task group, convened under the TAG. Our task will be to deliver a document comprising i. use cases and competency questions; ii. well documented examples of addressing those use cases via rdf and sparql; and iii. discussion of advantages and disadvantages of the approaches illustrated by the examples. Our draft charter is at http://code.google.com/p/tdwg-rdf/wiki/CharterOfTG and we welcome comments, suggestions, and better ideas. One area where we're still open is the question of whether or not our deliverable should be an official Best Current Practice document [1]. The charter reflects our current feeling that it should not. After we deliver our "book of use cases and examples", options would include being re-chartered by the TAG to produce a best practices document, spinning off as a "Semantic Web Interest Group", or disbanding (either in triumph or despair). When we were planning to convene as an Interest Group, several of you accepted our invitation to serve as core members, and we hope that convening as a Task Group does not change your willingness to do so. If you would like to be a core member of the group, and we haven't yet contacted you, there's a good chance that we will. But don't wait! Feel free to volunteer for core membership. (And recall that you don't have to be a "core member to" contribute.) In regards timeline, I'd like to incorporate any feedback we receive, and submit the charter to the executive at the end of this week, in hopes of being chartered by New Orleans. Many thanks! Joel. 1. http://www.tdwg.org/standards/status-and-categories/

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Re: [tdwg-tag] RDF/OWL Good Practices Task Group
by Nico Cellinese 04 Oct '11

04 Oct '11

Hi Pete, There are no Kings or Queens in TDWG. Well, maybe a few princesses. However, if you lock yourself in the dungeon there is very little we can do. Please, don't throw the key away in the crocodile pond around your own castle. Nobody is going to swim in there. I'll be happy to come and rescue you from yourself as I think you are truly victimizing yourself unnecessarily. Nobody has an agenda. Ideas come and go, they are revisited, rehashed, recycled over and over until maybe a seed germinates, and yes, sometimes in someone's else backyard. You can jump in and help, contribute, fertilize, make it grow better instead of whining. We heard the same stuff over and over again. It was about LOD at some point. There are no EGOs here but your own, clearly lost in self pity. TDWG loves you. Everyone loves the contribution you, all of us, can provide. It was really great to see you last year in Woods Hole. Come back!! We want you there! Nico > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 16:11:31 -0500 > From: Peter DeVries <pete.devries(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [tdwg-tag] RDF/OWL Good Practices Task Group > To: joel sachs <jsachs(a)csee.umbc.edu> > Cc: tdwg-tag(a)lists.tdwg.org > Message-ID: > <CAE0MQeEcB2_Cdcj18_0esYu96qgwW-thK8+gZm8bz-nXN9W-1g(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi TDWG'ers, > > I thought it would be good to explain in a different way how I see TDWG > functioning. > > There are people who take pride in their intellect. > > If it turns out that they are wrong they can experience a form of cognitive > dissonance. > > The either consciously or unconsciously convince themselves that the > original person taking the "correct side" was wrong, or that they had > actually heard it somewhere else (they were never on the "wrong" side) > > In some cases, they are aware of what they are doing and actively try to > punish or exclude the person who "corrected" them. > > In the tale "The Emperor's New Clothes" ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes ) > > a child spoke up while others remained silent - afraid of what might happen > to them if the told the King the truth. > > The reason this is popular tale has been translated into 100 languages, is > that this kind of behavior is so common. > > The irony is that not about intellect. but emotions. > > Has anyone else on this list had the experience of be punished after > correctly pointing out a flaw in someone else's logic? > > Is this behavior at odds with the goals and best interests of the group? > > I am concerned that there is only place in TDWG for the Kings and those that > allow them to keep there Ego's happy. > > Respectfully, > > - Pete > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 2:46 PM, joel sachs <jsachs(a)csee.umbc.edu> wrote: > >> Greetings everyone, >> >> After some back and forth amongst Steve Baskauf, myself, Greg Whitbread, >> and the executive, we've decided to move forward with an RDF/OWL task >> group, convened under the TAG. Our task will be to deliver a document >> comprising >> i. use cases and competency questions; >> ii. well documented examples of addressing those use cases via rdf and >> sparql; and >> iii. discussion of advantages and disadvantages of the approaches >> illustrated by the examples. >> >> Our draft charter is at >> http://code.google.com/p/tdwg-rdf/wiki/CharterOfTG >> and we welcome comments, suggestions, and better ideas. One area where >> we're still open is the question of whether or not our deliverable should >> be an official Best Current Practice document [1]. The charter reflects >> our current feeling that it should not. After we deliver our "book of use >> cases and examples", options would include being re-chartered by the TAG >> to produce a best practices document, spinning off as a "Semantic Web >> Interest Group", or disbanding (either in triumph or despair). >> >> When we were planning to convene as an Interest Group, several of you >> accepted our invitation to serve as core members, and we hope that >> convening as a Task Group does not change your willingness to do so. If >> you would like to be a core member of the group, and we haven't yet >> contacted you, there's a good chance that we will. But don't wait! Feel >> free to volunteer for core membership. (And recall that you don't have to >> be a "core member to" contribute.) >> >> In regards timeline, I'd like to incorporate any feedback we receive, and >> submit the charter to the executive at the end of this week, in hopes of >> being chartered by New Orleans. >> >> Many thanks! >> Joel. >> >> 1. http://www.tdwg.org/standards/status-and-categories/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tdwg-tag mailing list >> tdwg-tag(a)lists.tdwg.org >> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tag >> > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Pete DeVries > Department of Entomology > University of Wisconsin - Madison > 445 Russell Laboratories > 1630 Linden Drive > Madison, WI 53706 > Email: pdevries(a)wisc.edu > TaxonConcept <http://www.taxonconcept.org/> & > GeoSpecies<http://about.geospecies.org/> Knowledge > Bases > A Semantic Web, Linked Open Data <http://linkeddata.org/> Project > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >

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