Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
count me too... even though i haven't been very active on these lists yet... -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Wouter Addink Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 15:18 An: 'TAPIR mailing list' Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data +1 kudo Wouter _____ From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Roger Hyam Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:07 PM To: Tim Robertson Cc: TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data Make that 3 votes total. Roger On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:03, Tim Robertson wrote: +1 vote ------------ +2 (total) On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:59, Markus Döring (GBIF) wrote: As the average TDWG mailing list is not exactly overloaded with posts, how about consolidating TDWG's mailinglists into just 3? An announcement list for TDWG business (tdwg+process), a technical one (TAG,GUID+TAPIR) and just a single content one. This would probably also help to avoid duplication of efforts and to produce more consistent results across the subgroups. Just an idea. Markus http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo On Dec 1, 2008, at 13:29, Holetschek, Jörg wrote: Tomas, there's a wiki you might find interesting: http://wiki.tdwg.org/twiki/bin/view/ But as far as I know, this is the only mailing list alive for discussions like that... Jörg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: bar tomas [ mailto:bartomas@gmail.com] Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 13:13 An: Holetschek, Jörg Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data Thanks for all your help. One last question: is there a mailing list for specifically discussing conceptual aspects of Darwin Core, ABCD, etc (I haven't been able to find one) or is Tapir mailing list for that purpose? Thanks T. Bar On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Holetschek, Jörg < j.holetschek@bgbm.org> wrote: Dear Thomas, the ABCD schema can handle such unbounded data - but the only TAPIR provider software that supports ABCD (pyWrapper) is not quite bug free. So you'd have to use the BioCASe protcol - which is apparently not your intention. Cheers from Berlin, Jörg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Tim Robertson (GBIF) Gesendet: Sonntag, 30. November 2008 16:22 An: bar tomas Cc: tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data This is correct... largely it is used for transfer of detailed single specimen records. That is not so say you could not define some schema that reuses sections of DwC or the TDWG vocabularies - you probably would have to get into custom provider software in that case (although maybe the current tools would allow for it - Renato could give advice for TAPIRLink on this). Cheers Tim
Thanks a lot for the information.
I suppose when the record is composed of multiple specimens (whose number is recorded in ObservedIndividualCount) the individual attributes of each specimen (age, sex, maturity, etc) cannot be stored.
Tomas Bar
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Tim Robertson < trobertson@gbif.org> wrote:
Hi T. Bar You might consider the OBIS extensions for Darwin Core since you are concerned with marine stuff.
http://iobis.org/obis/obis.xsd
SampleSize: the size of the sample from which the collection/observation was drawn. It can be a volume (e.g. for a phytoplankton sample), a linear distance (e.g. for a visual transect or net haul), a surface area (e.g. for a benthic core), etc. This field must also include the units, e.g. 200 mfor a transect, or 0.25 m^2 for a benthic grab (use ^ to denote a superscript). Note that when multiple collections/observations are reported from the same physical sample, a code identifying the sample can be placed in the Field_Number field to allow all collections/observations from a single sample to be connected.
IndividualCount is a count of specimens (e.g. not a count of species). If you want to indicate multiple species, then you would have a record for each along with the identification and the count of individuals of that species.
So in the OBIS schema you have:
ObservedIndividualCount: The number of individuals (abundance) found in a collection/record event.
Cheers,
Tim
On 28 Nov 2008, at 17:05, bar tomas wrote:
Sorry if this question is misplaced in this discussion list, but I haven't been able to find a mailing list on the conceptual aspects of Darwin Core.
I am interested to know if there are any recommendations on how to represent abundance in Darwin Core. I have seen some datasets using IndividualCount and SampleSize. For instance, for a fishing survey, would you use IndividualCount for the number of species in a catch, and SampleSize for the distance towed?
Thank you very much _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
____________________________________________________________ Tim Robertson Systems Architect Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat (GBIF) Universitetsparken 15, 2100 Copenhagen Ø, Denmark http://www.gbif.org <http://www.gbif.org/> trobertson@gbif.org Phone: +45 35 32 14 87 (Office) Fax: +45 35 32 14 80 ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir ------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Hyam Roger@BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org http://www.BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org <http://www.BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org/> ------------------------------------------------------------- Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh 20A Inverleith Row, Edinburgh, EH3 5LR, UK Tel: +44 131 552 7171 ext 3015 Fax: +44 131 248 2901 http://www.rbge.org.uk/ -------------------------------------------------------------
Me too, I've been thinking the same thing lately. Just goes to show we should open our mouths and voice our opinions more often. :-) +1 vote = 6 (total) From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Holetschek, Jörg Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 4:12 a.m. To: Wouter Addink; TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data count me too... even though i haven't been very active on these lists yet... -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Wouter Addink Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 15:18 An: 'TAPIR mailing list' Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data +1 kudo Wouter ________________________________ From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Roger Hyam Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:07 PM To: Tim Robertson Cc: TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data Make that 3 votes total. Roger On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:03, Tim Robertson wrote: +1 vote ------------ +2 (total) On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:59, Markus Döring (GBIF) wrote: As the average TDWG mailing list is not exactly overloaded with posts, how about consolidating TDWG's mailinglists into just 3? An announcement list for TDWG business (tdwg+process), a technical one (TAG,GUID+TAPIR) and just a single content one. This would probably also help to avoid duplication of efforts and to produce more consistent results across the subgroups. Just an idea. Markus http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo On Dec 1, 2008, at 13:29, Holetschek, Jörg wrote: Tomas, there's a wiki you might find interesting: http://wiki.tdwg.org/twiki/bin/view/ But as far as I know, this is the only mailing list alive for discussions like that... Jörg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: bar tomas [mailto:bartomas@gmail.com] Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 13:13 An: Holetschek, Jörg Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data Thanks for all your help. One last question: is there a mailing list for specifically discussing conceptual aspects of Darwin Core, ABCD, etc (I haven't been able to find one) or is Tapir mailing list for that purpose? Thanks T. Bar On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Holetschek, Jörg <j.holetschek@bgbm.org<mailto:j.holetschek@bgbm.org>> wrote: Dear Thomas, the ABCD schema can handle such unbounded data - but the only TAPIR provider software that supports ABCD (pyWrapper) is not quite bug free. So you'd have to use the BioCASe protcol - which is apparently not your intention. Cheers from Berlin, Jörg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org<mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org> [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org<mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org>]Im Auftrag von Tim Robertson (GBIF) Gesendet: Sonntag, 30. November 2008 16:22 An: bar tomas Cc: tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org<mailto:tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org> Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data This is correct... largely it is used for transfer of detailed single specimen records. That is not so say you could not define some schema that reuses sections of DwC or the TDWG vocabularies - you probably would have to get into custom provider software in that case (although maybe the current tools would allow for it - Renato could give advice for TAPIRLink on this). Cheers Tim
Thanks a lot for the information.
I suppose when the record is composed of multiple specimens (whose number is recorded in ObservedIndividualCount) the individual attributes of each specimen (age, sex, maturity, etc) cannot be stored.
Tomas Bar
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Tim Robertson <trobertson@gbif.org<mailto:trobertson@gbif.org>> wrote:
Hi T. Bar You might consider the OBIS extensions for Darwin Core since you are concerned with marine stuff.
http://iobis.org/obis/obis.xsd
SampleSize: the size of the sample from which the collection/observation was drawn. It can be a volume (e.g. for a phytoplankton sample), a linear distance (e.g. for a visual transect or net haul), a surface area (e.g. for a benthic core), etc. This field must also include the units, e.g. 200 mfor a transect, or 0.25 m^2 for a benthic grab (use ^ to denote a superscript). Note that when multiple collections/observations are reported from the same physical sample, a code identifying the sample can be placed in the Field_Number field to allow all collections/observations from a single sample to be connected.
IndividualCount is a count of specimens (e.g. not a count of species). If you want to indicate multiple species, then you would have a record for each along with the identification and the count of individuals of that species.
So in the OBIS schema you have:
ObservedIndividualCount: The number of individuals (abundance) found in a collection/record event.
Cheers,
Tim
On 28 Nov 2008, at 17:05, bar tomas wrote:
Sorry if this question is misplaced in this discussion list, but I haven't been able to find a mailing list on the conceptual aspects of Darwin Core.
I am interested to know if there are any recommendations on how to represent abundance in Darwin Core. I have seen some datasets using IndividualCount and SampleSize. For instance, for a fishing survey, would you use IndividualCount for the number of species in a catch, and SampleSize for the distance towed?
Thank you very much _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org<mailto:tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
____________________________________________________________ Tim Robertson Systems Architect Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat (GBIF) Universitetsparken 15, 2100 Copenhagen Ø, Denmark http://www.gbif.org<http://www.gbif.org/> trobertson@gbif.org<mailto:trobertson@gbif.org> Phone: +45 35 32 14 87 (Office) Fax: +45 35 32 14 80 ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org<mailto:tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org<mailto:tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org<mailto:tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org<mailto:tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir ------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Hyam Roger@BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org<mailto:Roger@BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org> http://www.BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org<http://www.BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org/> ------------------------------------------------------------- Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh 20A Inverleith Row, Edinburgh, EH3 5LR, UK Tel: +44 131 552 7171 ext 3015 Fax: +44 131 248 2901 http://www.rbge.org.uk/ ------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Please consider the environment before printing this email Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the emails. The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz
I like simple: 7 votes Lee Belbin TDWG Secretariat From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Richards Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 7:11 AM To: Holetschek, Jörg; Wouter Addink; TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data Me too, I've been thinking the same thing lately. Just goes to show we should open our mouths and voice our opinions more often. :-) +1 vote = 6 (total) From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Holetschek, Jörg Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 4:12 a.m. To: Wouter Addink; TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data count me too... even though i haven't been very active on these lists yet... -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Wouter Addink Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 15:18 An: 'TAPIR mailing list' Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data +1 kudo Wouter _____ From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Roger Hyam Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:07 PM To: Tim Robertson Cc: TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data Make that 3 votes total. Roger On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:03, Tim Robertson wrote: +1 vote ------------ +2 (total) On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:59, Markus Döring (GBIF) wrote: As the average TDWG mailing list is not exactly overloaded with posts, how about consolidating TDWG's mailinglists into just 3? An announcement list for TDWG business (tdwg+process), a technical one (TAG,GUID+TAPIR) and just a single content one. This would probably also help to avoid duplication of efforts and to produce more consistent results across the subgroups. Just an idea. Markus http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo On Dec 1, 2008, at 13:29, Holetschek, Jörg wrote: Tomas, there's a wiki you might find interesting: http://wiki.tdwg.org/twiki/bin/view/ But as far as I know, this is the only mailing list alive for discussions like that... Jörg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: bar tomas [mailto:bartomas@gmail.com] Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 13:13 An: Holetschek, Jörg Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data Thanks for all your help. One last question: is there a mailing list for specifically discussing conceptual aspects of Darwin Core, ABCD, etc (I haven't been able to find one) or is Tapir mailing list for that purpose? Thanks T. Bar On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Holetschek, Jörg <j.holetschek@bgbm.org> wrote: Dear Thomas, the ABCD schema can handle such unbounded data - but the only TAPIR provider software that supports ABCD (pyWrapper) is not quite bug free. So you'd have to use the BioCASe protcol - which is apparently not your intention. Cheers from Berlin, Jörg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Tim Robertson (GBIF) Gesendet: Sonntag, 30. November 2008 16:22 An: bar tomas Cc: tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data This is correct... largely it is used for transfer of detailed single specimen records. That is not so say you could not define some schema that reuses sections of DwC or the TDWG vocabularies - you probably would have to get into custom provider software in that case (although maybe the current tools would allow for it - Renato could give advice for TAPIRLink on this). Cheers Tim
Thanks a lot for the information.
I suppose when the record is composed of multiple specimens (whose number is recorded in ObservedIndividualCount) the individual attributes of each specimen (age, sex, maturity, etc) cannot be stored.
Tomas Bar
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Tim Robertson <trobertson@gbif.org> wrote:
Hi T. Bar You might consider the OBIS extensions for Darwin Core since you are concerned with marine stuff.
http://iobis.org/obis/obis.xsd
SampleSize: the size of the sample from which the collection/observation was drawn. It can be a volume (e.g. for a phytoplankton sample), a linear distance (e.g. for a visual transect or net haul), a surface area (e.g. for a benthic core), etc. This field must also include the units, e.g. 200 mfor a transect, or 0.25 m^2 for a benthic grab (use ^ to denote a superscript). Note that when multiple collections/observations are reported from the same physical sample, a code identifying the sample can be placed in the Field_Number field to allow all collections/observations from a single sample to be connected.
IndividualCount is a count of specimens (e.g. not a count of species). If you want to indicate multiple species, then you would have a record for each along with the identification and the count of individuals of that species.
So in the OBIS schema you have:
ObservedIndividualCount: The number of individuals (abundance) found in a collection/record event.
Cheers,
Tim
On 28 Nov 2008, at 17:05, bar tomas wrote:
Sorry if this question is misplaced in this discussion list, but I haven't been able to find a mailing list on the conceptual aspects of Darwin Core.
I am interested to know if there are any recommendations on how to represent abundance in Darwin Core. I have seen some datasets using IndividualCount and SampleSize. For instance, for a fishing survey, would you use IndividualCount for the number of species in a catch, and SampleSize for the distance towed?
Thank you very much _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
____________________________________________________________ Tim Robertson Systems Architect Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat (GBIF) Universitetsparken 15, 2100 Copenhagen Ø, Denmark http://www.gbif.org <http://www.gbif.org/> trobertson@gbif.org Phone: +45 35 32 14 87 (Office) Fax: +45 35 32 14 80 ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir ------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Hyam Roger@BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org http://www.BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org <http://www.BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org/> ------------------------------------------------------------- Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh 20A Inverleith Row, Edinburgh, EH3 5LR, UK Tel: +44 131 552 7171 ext 3015 Fax: +44 131 248 2901 http://www.rbge.org.uk/ ------------------------------------------------------------- _____ Please consider the environment before printing this email Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the emails. The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz
Add another vote to this proposal from me, too. 8 votes Piers ________________________________ From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org on behalf of Lee Belbin Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 5:19 AM To: 'TAPIR mailing list' Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data I like simple: 7 votes Lee Belbin TDWG Secretariat From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Richards Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 7:11 AM To: Holetschek, Jörg; Wouter Addink; TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data Me too, I've been thinking the same thing lately. Just goes to show we should open our mouths and voice our opinions more often. :-) +1 vote = 6 (total) From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Holetschek, Jörg Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 4:12 a.m. To: Wouter Addink; TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data count me too... even though i haven't been very active on these lists yet... -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Wouter Addink Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 15:18 An: 'TAPIR mailing list' Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data +1 kudo Wouter ________________________________ From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Roger Hyam Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:07 PM To: Tim Robertson Cc: TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data Make that 3 votes total. Roger On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:03, Tim Robertson wrote: +1 vote ------------ +2 (total) On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:59, Markus Döring (GBIF) wrote: As the average TDWG mailing list is not exactly overloaded with posts, how about consolidating TDWG's mailinglists into just 3? An announcement list for TDWG business (tdwg+process), a technical one (TAG,GUID+TAPIR) and just a single content one. This would probably also help to avoid duplication of efforts and to produce more consistent results across the subgroups. Just an idea. Markus http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo On Dec 1, 2008, at 13:29, Holetschek, Jörg wrote: Tomas, there's a wiki you might find interesting: http://wiki.tdwg.org/twiki/bin/view/ But as far as I know, this is the only mailing list alive for discussions like that... Jörg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: bar tomas [mailto:bartomas@gmail.com] Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 13:13 An: Holetschek, Jörg Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data Thanks for all your help. One last question: is there a mailing list for specifically discussing conceptual aspects of Darwin Core, ABCD, etc (I haven't been able to find one) or is Tapir mailing list for that purpose? Thanks T. Bar On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Holetschek, Jörg <j.holetschek@bgbm.org> wrote: Dear Thomas, the ABCD schema can handle such unbounded data - but the only TAPIR provider software that supports ABCD (pyWrapper) is not quite bug free. So you'd have to use the BioCASe protcol - which is apparently not your intention. Cheers from Berlin, Jörg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Tim Robertson (GBIF) Gesendet: Sonntag, 30. November 2008 16:22 An: bar tomas Cc: tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data This is correct... largely it is used for transfer of detailed single specimen records. That is not so say you could not define some schema that reuses sections of DwC or the TDWG vocabularies - you probably would have to get into custom provider software in that case (although maybe the current tools would allow for it - Renato could give advice for TAPIRLink on this). Cheers Tim > Thanks a lot for the information. > > I suppose when the record is composed of multiple specimens (whose > number > is recorded in ObservedIndividualCount) the individual attributes of each > specimen (age, sex, maturity, etc) cannot be stored. > > > > Tomas Bar > > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Tim Robertson <trobertson@gbif.org> > wrote: > >> Hi T. Bar >> You might consider the OBIS extensions for Darwin Core since you are >> concerned with marine stuff. >> >> http://iobis.org/obis/obis.xsd >> >> SampleSize: the size of the sample from which the >> collection/observation was drawn. It can be a volume (e.g. for a >> phytoplankton sample), a linear distance (e.g. for a visual transect or >> net haul), a surface area (e.g. for a benthic core), etc. This field >> must also include the units, e.g. 200 mfor a transect, or 0.25 m^2 for a >> benthic grab (use ^ to denote a superscript). Note that when multiple >> collections/observations are reported from the same physical sample, a >> code identifying the sample can be placed in the Field_Number field to >> allow all collections/observations from a single sample to be connected. >> >> >> IndividualCount is a count of specimens (e.g. not a count of species). >> If >> you want to indicate multiple species, then you would have a record for >> each >> along with the identification and the count of individuals of that >> species. >> >> So in the OBIS schema you have: >> >> ObservedIndividualCount: The number of individuals (abundance) found in >> a collection/record event. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> On 28 Nov 2008, at 17:05, bar tomas wrote: >> >> Sorry if this question is misplaced in this discussion list, but I >> haven't been able to find a mailing list on the conceptual aspects of >> Darwin >> Core. >> >> >> I am interested to know if there are any recommendations on how to >> represent abundance in Darwin Core. I have seen some datasets using >> IndividualCount and SampleSize. For instance, for a fishing survey, >> would >> you use IndividualCount for the number of species in a catch, and >> SampleSize >> for the distance towed? >> >> >> Thank you very much >> _______________________________________________ >> tdwg-tapir mailing list >> tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org >> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir >> >> >> > ____________________________________________________________ Tim Robertson Systems Architect Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat (GBIF) Universitetsparken 15, 2100 Copenhagen Ø, Denmark http://www.gbif.org <http://www.gbif.org/> trobertson@gbif.org Phone: +45 35 32 14 87 (Office) Fax: +45 35 32 14 80 ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir ------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Hyam Roger@BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org http://www.BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org <http://www.biodiversitycollectionsindex.org/> ------------------------------------------------------------- Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh 20A Inverleith Row, Edinburgh, EH3 5LR, UK Tel: +44 131 552 7171 ext 3015 Fax: +44 131 248 2901 http://www.rbge.org.uk/ ------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Please consider the environment before printing this email Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the emails. The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz
If the only thing stopping us is a quorum, make that 9! 2008/12/8 Piers Higgs <Piers@gaiaresources.com.au>:
Add another vote to this proposal from me, too.
8 votes
Piers ________________________________ From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org on behalf of Lee Belbin Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 5:19 AM To: 'TAPIR mailing list' Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
I like simple:
7 votes
Lee Belbin
TDWG Secretariat
From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Richards Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 7:11 AM To: Holetschek, Jörg; Wouter Addink; TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
Me too, I've been thinking the same thing lately.
Just goes to show we should open our mouths and voice our opinions more often. :-)
+1 vote
= 6 (total)
From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Holetschek, Jörg Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 4:12 a.m. To: Wouter Addink; TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
count me too... even though i haven't been very active on these lists yet...
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Wouter Addink Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 15:18 An: 'TAPIR mailing list' Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
+1 kudo
Wouter
________________________________
From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Roger Hyam Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:07 PM To: Tim Robertson Cc: TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
Make that 3 votes total.
Roger
On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:03, Tim Robertson wrote:
+1 vote
------------
+2 (total)
On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:59, Markus Döring (GBIF) wrote:
As the average TDWG mailing list is not exactly overloaded with posts, how about consolidating TDWG's mailinglists into just 3?
An announcement list for TDWG business (tdwg+process), a technical one (TAG,GUID+TAPIR) and just a single content one.
This would probably also help to avoid duplication of efforts and to produce more consistent results across the subgroups.
Just an idea.
Markus
http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo
On Dec 1, 2008, at 13:29, Holetschek, Jörg wrote:
Tomas,
there's a wiki you might find interesting: http://wiki.tdwg.org/twiki/bin/view/
But as far as I know, this is the only mailing list alive for discussions like that...
Jörg
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: bar tomas [mailto:bartomas@gmail.com] Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 13:13 An: Holetschek, Jörg Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
Thanks for all your help.
One last question: is there a mailing list for specifically discussing conceptual aspects of Darwin Core, ABCD, etc (I haven't been able to find one) or is Tapir mailing list for that purpose?
Thanks
T. Bar
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Holetschek, Jörg <j.holetschek@bgbm.org> wrote:
Dear Thomas,
the ABCD schema can handle such unbounded data - but the only TAPIR provider software that supports ABCD (pyWrapper) is not quite bug free. So you'd have to use the BioCASe protcol - which is apparently not your intention.
Cheers from Berlin, Jörg
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Tim Robertson (GBIF) Gesendet: Sonntag, 30. November 2008 16:22 An: bar tomas Cc: tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
This is correct... largely it is used for transfer of detailed single specimen records.
That is not so say you could not define some schema that reuses sections of DwC or the TDWG vocabularies - you probably would have to get into custom provider software in that case (although maybe the current tools would allow for it - Renato could give advice for TAPIRLink on this).
Cheers
Tim
Thanks a lot for the information.
I suppose when the record is composed of multiple specimens (whose number is recorded in ObservedIndividualCount) the individual attributes of each specimen (age, sex, maturity, etc) cannot be stored.
Tomas Bar
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Tim Robertson <trobertson@gbif.org> wrote:
Hi T. Bar You might consider the OBIS extensions for Darwin Core since you are concerned with marine stuff.
http://iobis.org/obis/obis.xsd
SampleSize: the size of the sample from which the collection/observation was drawn. It can be a volume (e.g. for a phytoplankton sample), a linear distance (e.g. for a visual transect or net haul), a surface area (e.g. for a benthic core), etc. This field must also include the units, e.g. 200 mfor a transect, or 0.25 m^2 for a benthic grab (use ^ to denote a superscript). Note that when multiple collections/observations are reported from the same physical sample, a code identifying the sample can be placed in the Field_Number field to allow all collections/observations from a single sample to be connected.
IndividualCount is a count of specimens (e.g. not a count of species). If you want to indicate multiple species, then you would have a record for each along with the identification and the count of individuals of that species.
So in the OBIS schema you have:
ObservedIndividualCount: The number of individuals (abundance) found in a collection/record event.
Cheers,
Tim
On 28 Nov 2008, at 17:05, bar tomas wrote:
Sorry if this question is misplaced in this discussion list, but I haven't been able to find a mailing list on the conceptual aspects of Darwin Core.
I am interested to know if there are any recommendations on how to represent abundance in Darwin Core. I have seen some datasets using IndividualCount and SampleSize. For instance, for a fishing survey, would you use IndividualCount for the number of species in a catch, and SampleSize for the distance towed?
Thank you very much _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
____________________________________________________________ Tim Robertson Systems Architect Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat (GBIF) Universitetsparken 15, 2100 Copenhagen Ø, Denmark http://www.gbif.org trobertson@gbif.org Phone: +45 35 32 14 87 (Office) Fax: +45 35 32 14 80 ____________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Hyam Roger@BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org http://www.BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org -------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh
20A Inverleith Row, Edinburgh, EH3 5LR, UK
Tel: +44 131 552 7171 ext 3015
Fax: +44 131 248 2901
-------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________
Please consider the environment before printing this email Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the emails. The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
Hi, I also agree with the change, but I think it's important to keep the archives of this list publicly available. By the way, I hope to make those last changes in the protocol next week, since there were no objections so far. For more information about this: http://lists.tdwg.org/pipermail/tdwg-tapir/2008-October/000587.html So if we don't have an immediate mailing list transition, you should soon see here some automatic notifications of schema changes and a couple of messages as the protocol gets ready to be submitted to the standards track. Best Regards, -- Renato
If the only thing stopping us is a quorum, make that 9!
2008/12/8 Piers Higgs <Piers@gaiaresources.com.au>:
Add another vote to this proposal from me, too.
8 votes
Piers ________________________________ From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org on behalf of Lee Belbin Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 5:19 AM To: 'TAPIR mailing list' Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
I like simple:
7 votes
Lee Belbin
TDWG Secretariat
From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Richards Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 7:11 AM To: Holetschek, Jörg; Wouter Addink; TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
Me too, I've been thinking the same thing lately.
Just goes to show we should open our mouths and voice our opinions more often. :-)
+1 vote
= 6 (total)
From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Holetschek, Jörg Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 4:12 a.m. To: Wouter Addink; TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
count me too... even though i haven't been very active on these lists yet...
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Wouter Addink Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 15:18 An: 'TAPIR mailing list' Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
+1 kudo
Wouter
________________________________
From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Roger Hyam Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:07 PM To: Tim Robertson Cc: TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
Make that 3 votes total.
Roger
On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:03, Tim Robertson wrote:
+1 vote
------------
+2 (total)
On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:59, Markus Döring (GBIF) wrote:
As the average TDWG mailing list is not exactly overloaded with posts, how about consolidating TDWG's mailinglists into just 3?
An announcement list for TDWG business (tdwg+process), a technical one (TAG,GUID+TAPIR) and just a single content one.
This would probably also help to avoid duplication of efforts and to produce more consistent results across the subgroups.
Just an idea.
Markus
Yes. We do need to open up the process. On Tue, 2008-12-02 at 07:10, Kevin Richards wrote:
Me too, I've been thinking the same thing lately.
Just goes to show we should open our mouths and voice our opinions more often. :-)
+1 vote
= 6 (total)
From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Holetschek, Jörg Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 4:12 a.m. To: Wouter Addink; TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
count me too... even though i haven't been very active on these lists yet...
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag vonWouter Addink Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 15:18 An: 'TAPIR mailing list' Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
+1 kudo
Wouter
______________________________________________________________
From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Roger Hyam Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:07 PM To: Tim Robertson Cc: TAPIR mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
Make that 3 votes total.
Roger
On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:03, Tim Robertson wrote:
+1 vote
------------
+2 (total)
On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:59, Markus Döring (GBIF) wrote:
As the average TDWG mailing list is not exactly overloaded with posts, how about consolidating TDWG's mailinglists into just 3?
An announcement list for TDWG business (tdwg+process), a technical one (TAG,GUID+TAPIR) and just a single content one.
This would probably also help to avoid duplication of efforts and to produce more consistent results across the subgroups.
Just an idea.
Markus
http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo
On Dec 1, 2008, at 13:29, Holetschek, Jörg wrote:
Tomas,
there's a wiki you might find interesting: http://wiki.tdwg.org/twiki/bin/view/
But as far as I know, this is the only mailing list alive for discussions like that...
Jörg
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: bar tomas [mailto:bartomas@gmail.com] Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 13:13 An: Holetschek, Jörg Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
Thanks for all your help.
One last question: is there a mailing list for specifically discussing conceptual aspects of Darwin Core, ABCD, etc (I haven't been able to find one) or is Tapir mailing list for that purpose?
Thanks
T. Bar
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Holetschek, Jörg <j.holetschek@bgbm.org> wrote:
Dear Thomas,
the ABCD schema can handle such unbounded data - but the only TAPIR provider software that supports ABCD (pyWrapper) is not quite bug free. So you'd have to use the BioCASe protcol - which is apparently not your intention.
Cheers from Berlin, Jörg
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]Im Auftrag von Tim Robertson (GBIF) Gesendet: Sonntag, 30. November 2008 16:22 An: bar tomas Cc: tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] Abundance data
This is correct... largely it is used for transfer of detailed single specimen records.
That is not so say you could not define some schema that reuses sections of DwC or the TDWG vocabularies - you probably would have to get into custom provider software in that case (although maybe the current tools would allow for it - Renato could give advice for TAPIRLink on this).
Cheers
Tim
> Thanks a lot for the information. > > I suppose when the record is composed of multiple specimens (whose > number > is recorded in ObservedIndividualCount) the individual attributes of each > specimen (age, sex, maturity, etc) cannot be stored. > > > > Tomas Bar > > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Tim Robertson <trobertson@gbif.org> > wrote: > >> Hi T. Bar >> You might consider the OBIS extensions for Darwin Core since you are >> concerned with marine stuff. >> >> http://iobis.org/obis/obis.xsd >> >> SampleSize: the size of the sample from which the >> collection/observation was drawn. It can be a volume (e.g. for a >> phytoplankton sample), a linear distance (e.g. for a visual transect or >> net haul), a surface area (e.g. for a benthic core), etc. This field >> must also include the units, e.g. 200 mfor a transect, or 0.25 m^2 for a >> benthic grab (use ^ to denote a superscript). Note that when multiple >> collections/observations are reported from the same physical sample, a >> code identifying the sample can be placed in the Field_Number field to >> allow all collections/observations from a single sample to be connected. >> >> >> IndividualCount is a count of specimens (e.g. not a count of species). >> If >> you want to indicate multiple species, then you would have a record for >> each >> along with the identification and the count of individuals of that >> species. >> >> So in the OBIS schema you have: >> >> ObservedIndividualCount: The number of individuals (abundance) found in >> a collection/record event. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> On 28 Nov 2008, at 17:05, bar tomas wrote: >> >> Sorry if this question is misplaced in this discussion list, but I >> haven't been able to find a mailing list on the conceptual aspects of >> Darwin >> Core. >> >> >> I am interested to know if there are any recommendations on how to >> represent abundance in Darwin Core. I have seen some datasets using >> IndividualCount and SampleSize. For instance, for a fishing survey, >> would >> you use IndividualCount for the number of species in a catch, and >> SampleSize >> for the distance towed? >> >> >> Thank you very much >> _______________________________________________ >> tdwg-tapir mailing list >> tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org >> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir >> >> >> >
____________________________________________________________ Tim Robertson Systems Architect Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat (GBIF) Universitetsparken 15, 2100 Copenhagen Ø, Denmark http://www.gbif.org trobertson@gbif.org Phone: +45 35 32 14 87 (Office) Fax: +45 35 32 14 80 ____________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir
------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Hyam Roger@BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org http://www.BiodiversityCollectionsIndex.org -------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh
20A Inverleith Row, Edinburgh, EH3 5LR, UK
Tel: +44 131 552 7171 ext 3015
Fax: +44 131 248 2901
-------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________________________ Please consider the environment before printing this email Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the emails. The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz
______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir --
australian centre for plant bIodiversity research<------------------+ national greg whitBread voice: +61 2 62509 482 botanic Integrated Botanical Information System fax: +61 2 62509 599 gardens S........ I.T. happens.. ghw@anbg.gov.au +----------------------------------------->GPO Box 1777 Canberra 2601 ------ If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. ------
participants (7)
-
Greg Whitbread -
Holetschek, Jörg -
John R. WIECZOREK -
Kevin Richards -
Lee Belbin -
Piers Higgs -
Renato De Giovanni