Topic 3: GUIDs for Taxon Names and Taxon Concepts - Maybe ...

Donald Hobern dhobern at GBIF.ORG
Mon Nov 7 10:28:46 CET 2005


Jessie,



Many thanks for this valuable response.  For reference, I agree with all of
Jessie's judgments below.



Donald

---------------------------------------------------------------
Donald Hobern ( <mailto:dhobern at gbif.org> dhobern at gbif.org)
Programme Officer for Data Access and Database Interoperability
Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat
Universitetsparken 15, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark
Tel: +45-35321483   Mobile: +45-28751483   Fax: +45-35321480
---------------------------------------------------------------

  _____

From: Taxonomic Databases Working Group GUID Project
[mailto:TDWG-GUID at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Jessie
Sent: 04 November 2005 14:18
To: TDWG-GUID at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU
Subject: Re: Topic 3: GUIDs for Taxon Names and Taxon Concepts - Maybe ...



Dear All



Sorry for coming in so late into the discussion in this list - I have a bit
of catching up to do..but have been reading the listings on this Topic with
great interest and agreeing with much of what has been said by everyone but
still seeing misunderstandings or disagreements between people on what we
mean and what we should do which is inevitable given that people have
different reasons for wanting GUIDs etc.



To summarise my take on what's been said and if I misquote anyone please
forgive me and feel free to correct me..



I agree with Donald (and Rich) about needing Taxon_Name_GUIDs and
Taxon_Concept_GUIDs.



I agree with Donald that a shorthand to referring to a Taxon_Concept is the
combination of Taxon_Name and the Taxon_Publication. This is slightly but
importantly different to Rich here in that the publication should be seen as
a taxonomic publication (for another discussion elsewhere) rather than any
publication - i.e. not simply usage of a name which could include an
observation or identification - this interpretation  opens up
Taxonomic_Concepts too widely to cover potential taxa rather than those
which have been defined, described and published in some scientific manner.)



I agree with the principle that GUIDs do not have to be issued from a
central repository BUT..



I do not agree that we should be issuing GUIDs for every taxonomic record -
be that for Taxonomic_Name or Taxonomic_Concept. There needs to be some
control - even if the control is self imposed.



I agree with Sally that we should have Nomenclators provide GUIDs for
Taxon_Names but would be more strict and say that these names should have
only one GUID and that the GUID should always resolve to exactly the same
name. So IPNI would be plant names, Index fugorum fungi names, zoobank when
available animal names etc. and that we should share the resource of fixing
this rather than duplicating effort (if I had any resource to give;-) ) IPNI
and IF wouldn't overlap in names.



I agree that anyone should be able to assign GUIDs but for their "own"
Taxonomic_Concepts, (so for example a provider like say Mammal species of
the world (or Bergey's manual for bacteria) which has well described
concepts, could issue GUIDs for all of the concepts they recognise and other
users of concepts could use their GUID in their database to record
observations etc if they agreed with their concept. If they didn't agree
with the MSW concept they could publish their own Taxonomic_Concept and GUID
and relate it to some MSW Taxonomic_Concept GUID) BUT..



I would argue that we should try to avoid generating GUIDs multiple times
for legacy concepts. For example, as mentioned by Rich the original
descriptions of names are original concepts - we wouldn't want ITIS, GBIF,
Species 2000, SEEK and whomever else creating different GUIDS of their own
to represent this concept if possible or we would never move towards knowing
we're talking about the same thing (- how this might be managed is probably
for another discussion topic).



I agree with Rod to the extent that moving forward with a distributed GUID
publication system is easy where providers publish GUIDs for their own
digital objects BUT..



I don't think it's helpful or in the spirit of GUIDs to take a digital
object and republish it with another GUID without managing the replication
of the GUIDs for the object - which could effectively be what happens if
every data provider just issues GUIDs for the data they hold which is
effectively the same as what someone else has already published. I think we
do want to move towards reuse of GUIDs as much as possible and therefore
sharing of work and easier and more accurate data integration. Also, what's
the point of having millions of unique GUIDs if I don't know which one to
put in "my" database to represent the Taxon_Name or Taxonomic_Concept I want
to refer to? Rod would suggest this be self selecting (use your favourite
provider, or the one you're told to - but I don't think it's that simple and
doesn't get us towards a good solution - unless the one you're told to use
does it properly!)



I don't agree with Rod that we should do only purely nomenclatural mappings
- as for most of the projects I'm involved with and people I've spoken to
this will not solve their problems - we do need to know what the name means.
However nomenclatural mapping is useful and a part of solving the overall
problem.



I agree with Rod that GUIDs will not solve all our problems but if managed
and planned in a sensible way they will help us on our way to solving the
problem.



What providers of GUIDs need to decide is what they are providing a GUID for
- in our area is it a Taxon_Name, a Taxonomic_Concpet, a
Taxonomic_Observation, a Specimen, a Description (of a specimen or
Taxonomic_Concept), a Taxonomic_Publication or whatever. Each of these
things can probably refer to some to the other things and these should be
using GUIDs.

For example if you're an ecologist you might record survey data and issue-

a GUID for a Taxonomic_Observation which contains

a GUID to a Taxonomic_Concept which contains

a GUID to a Taxonomic_Name which in turn will contain

a GUID to a Specimen - the type specimen

a GUID to a Taxonomic_Name maybe the basionym

a Description which in turn will contain

GUIDs to the Specimen(s) or Taxonomic_Concept described



The ecologist may only want to know about their observation of the
Taxonomic_Concept and not concern themselves with the embedded detail. So
hopefully you'll see that we really want commonality in usage of GUIDs as
much as possible so I think we need to think a bit about how we manage this
- possibly another topic for discussion and certainly one that GBIF could
lead.



I agree with Rod the idea of a local GUID as being nonsensical - GUID
meaning Globally Unique Identifier. The issue is about global uniqueness and
resolvability which are separate things but related in this discussion. And
as Rod says about whether we mean the same thing. Now as Rod says sorting
out the name part is a huge step forward I think sorting out the Concept
part is a bigger step forward - but won't EVER solve the issue of whether or
not someone identified something properly or whether they're thinking the
same as me but if we have Taxonomic_Concepts (with GUIDs) we're nearer to
knowing what we mean. Isn't this what the semantic web people are saying -
you can't assume that because the name is the same we're talking about the
same thing... So I do believe we need Taxonomic_Concepts and Taxonomic_Names
and all we're trying to do is sort out the terminology and semantics for
what concepts of organisms exist or have existed in the world.



Jessie























Prof. J B Kennedy

School of Computing

Napier University

10 Colinton Road

Edinburgh

EH10 5DT

Tel: +44 (0)131 455 2772

Fax: +44 (0)131 455 2727

Email: j.kennedy at napier.ac.uk

WWW: http://www.soc.napier.ac.uk/jessie



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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jessie,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Many thanks for this valuable
response.&nbsp; For reference, I agree with all of Jessie&#8217;s =
judgments
below.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Donald<br>
&nbsp;<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Donald Hobern (</span></font><a href=3D"mailto:dhobern at gbif.org"><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>dhobern at gbif.org</span></fon=
t></a><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>)<br>
Programme Officer for Data Access and Database Interoperability <br>
Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat <br>
Universitetsparken 15, DK-2100 <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City =
w:st=3D"on">Copenhagen</st1:City>,
 <st1:country-region =
w:st=3D"on">Denmark</st1:country-region></st1:place><br>
Tel: +45-35321483&nbsp;&nbsp; <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Mobile</st1:place></st1:City>:
+45-28751483&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax: +45-35321480<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------</span></f=
ont><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Taxonomic Databases Working Group GUID =
Project</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:<st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">TDWG-GUID at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU</st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Kennedy, =
Jessie<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 04 November 2005 =
14:18<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">TDWG-GUID at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Topic 3: =
GUIDs for
Taxon Names and Taxon Concepts - Maybe ...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Dear All<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Sorry for coming in so late into the =
discussion in
this list &#8211; I have a bit of catching up to do&#8230;.but have been
reading the listings on this Topic with great interest and agreeing with =
much
of what has been said by everyone but still seeing misunderstandings or
disagreements between people on what we mean and what we should do which =
is
inevitable given that people have different reasons for wanting GUIDs =
etc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>To summarise my take on what&#8217;s been said =
and if
I misquote anyone please forgive me and feel free to correct =
me&#8230;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I agree with Donald (and Rich) about needing
Taxon_Name_GUIDs and Taxon_Concept_GUIDs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I agree with Donald that a shorthand to =
referring to
a Taxon_Concept is the combination of Taxon_Name and the =
Taxon_Publication.
This is slightly but importantly different to Rich here in that the =
publication
should be seen as a taxonomic publication (for another discussion =
elsewhere)
rather than any publication &#8211; i.e. not simply usage of a name =
which could
include an observation or identification &#8211; this interpretation
&nbsp;opens up Taxonomic_Concepts too widely to cover potential taxa =
rather
than those which have been defined, described and published in some =
scientific
manner.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I agree with the principle that GUIDs do not =
have to
be issued from a central repository BUT&#8230;. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I do not agree that we should be issuing GUIDs =
for
every taxonomic record &#8211; be that for Taxonomic_Name or =
Taxonomic_Concept.
There needs to be some control &#8211; even if the control is self =
imposed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I agree with Sally that we should have =
Nomenclators
provide GUIDs for Taxon_Names but would be more strict and say that =
these names
should have only one GUID and that the GUID should always resolve to =
exactly
the same name. So IPNI would be plant names, Index fugorum fungi names, =
zoobank
when available animal names etc. and that we should share the resource =
of
fixing this rather than duplicating effort (if I had any resource to =
give;-) )
IPNI and IF wouldn&#8217;t overlap in =
names.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I agree that anyone should be able to assign =
GUIDs
but for their &#8220;<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>own</span></b>&#8221;
Taxonomic_Concepts, (so for example a provider like say Mammal species =
of the world
(or Bergey&#8217;s manual for bacteria) which has well described =
concepts,
could issue GUIDs for all of the concepts they recognise and other users =
of
concepts could use their GUID in their database to record observations =
etc if
they agreed with their concept. If they didn&#8217;t agree with the MSW =
concept
they could publish their own Taxonomic_Concept and GUID and relate it to =
some
MSW Taxonomic_Concept GUID) BUT&#8230;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I would argue that we should try to avoid =
generating
GUIDs multiple times for legacy concepts. For example, as mentioned by =
Rich the
original descriptions of names are original concepts &#8211; we =
wouldn&#8217;t
want ITIS, GBIF, Species 2000, SEEK and whomever else creating different =
GUIDS
of their own to represent this concept if possible or we would never =
move
towards knowing we&#8217;re talking about the same thing (- how this =
might be
managed is probably for another discussion topic). =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I agree with Rod to the extent that moving =
forward
with a distributed GUID publication system is easy where providers =
publish
GUIDs for their own digital objects =
BUT&#8230;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s helpful or in =
the
spirit of GUIDs to take a digital object and republish it with another =
GUID
without managing the replication of the GUIDs for the object &#8211; =
which
could effectively be what happens if every data provider just issues =
GUIDs for
the data they hold which is effectively the same as what someone else =
has
already published. I think we do want to move towards reuse of GUIDs as =
much as
possible and therefore sharing of work and easier and more accurate data
integration. Also, what&#8217;s the point of having millions of unique =
GUIDs if
I don&#8217;t know which one to put in &#8220;my&#8221; database to =
represent
the Taxon_Name or Taxonomic_Concept I want to refer to? Rod would =
suggest this
be self selecting (use your favourite provider, or the one you&#8217;re =
told to
&#8211; but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s that simple and doesn&#8217;t =
get us
towards a good solution &#8211; unless the one you&#8217;re told to use =
does it
properly!)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I don&#8217;t agree with Rod that we should do =
only
purely nomenclatural mappings &#8211; as for most of the projects =
I&#8217;m
involved with and people I&#8217;ve spoken to this will not solve their
problems &#8211; we do need to know what the name means. However =
nomenclatural
mapping is useful and a part of solving the overall =
problem.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I agree with Rod that GUIDs will not solve all =
our
problems but if managed and planned in a sensible way they will help us =
on our
way to solving the problem.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What providers of GUIDs need to decide is what =
they
are providing a GUID for &#8211; in our area is it a Taxon_Name, a
Taxonomic_Concpet, a Taxonomic_Observation, a Specimen, a Description =
(of a
specimen or Taxonomic_Concept), a Taxonomic_Publication or whatever. =
Each of
these things can probably refer to some to the other things and these =
should be
using GUIDs. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>For example if you&#8217;re an ecologist you =
might
record survey data and issue- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a GUID for a Taxonomic_Observation which =
contains <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a GUID to a
Taxonomic_Concept which contains <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a GUID
to a Taxonomic_Name which in turn will contain =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a GUID
to a Specimen &#8211; the type specimen <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a GUID
to a Taxonomic_Name maybe the basionym<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a
Description which in turn will contain <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>GUIDs to
the Specimen(s) or Taxonomic_Concept =
described<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The ecologist may only want to know about =
their
observation of the Taxonomic_Concept and not concern themselves with the
embedded detail. So hopefully you&#8217;ll see that we really want =
commonality
in usage of GUIDs as much as possible so I think we need to think a bit =
about
how we manage this &#8211; possibly another topic for discussion and =
certainly
one that GBIF could lead.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I agree with Rod the idea of a local GUID as =
being
nonsensical &#8211; GUID meaning Globally Unique Identifier. The issue =
is about
global uniqueness and resolvability which are separate things but =
related in
this discussion. And as Rod says about whether we mean the same thing. =
Now as
Rod says sorting out the name part is a huge step forward I think =
sorting out
the Concept part is a bigger step forward &#8211; but won&#8217;t EVER =
solve the
issue of whether or not someone identified something properly or whether
they&#8217;re thinking the same as me but if we have Taxonomic_Concepts =
(with
GUIDs) we&#8217;re nearer to knowing what we mean. Isn&#8217;t this what =
the
semantic web people are saying &#8211; you can&#8217;t assume that =
because the
name is the same we&#8217;re talking about the same thing&#8230;.. So I =
do
believe we need Taxonomic_Concepts and Taxonomic_Names and all =
we&#8217;re
trying to do is sort out the terminology and semantics for what concepts =
of
organisms exist or have existed in the =
world.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jessie<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Prof. J B Kennedy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>School of Computing =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2
  face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Napier</span></font></st1:Pl=
aceName><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
 <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">University</st1:PlaceType></span></font></st1:place><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:Street w:st=3D"on"><st1:address =
w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2
  face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>10
  Colinton Road</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><font =
size=3D2
  face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Edinburgh</span></font></st1=
:City></st1:place><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>EH10 5DT<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Tel: +44 (0)131 455 =
2772<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fax: +44 (0)131 455 =
2727<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Email: <a =
href=3D"mailto:j.kennedy at napier.ac.uk">j.kennedy at napier.ac.uk</a><o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>WWW: <a =
href=3D"http://www.soc.napier.ac.uk/jessie">http://www.soc.napier.ac.uk/j=
essie</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-weight:bold'>=
This
message is intended for the addressee(s) only and should not be read, =
copied or
disclosed to anyone else outwith the University without the permission =
of the
sender. It is your responsibility to ensure that this message and any
attachments are scanned for viruses or other defects. Napier University =
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not accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from this =
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any attachment, or for errors or omissions arising after it was sent. =
Email is
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