[tdwg-content] dwc: city to county

John R. WIECZOREK tuco at berkeley.edu
Tue Aug 18 18:47:17 CEST 2009

Seems like if the locationID is referring to a value in a standard (in
this case a term in a vocabulary) it should be resolvable, so why not
locationID=rs.tdwg.org/ontology/voc/GeographicRegion#AGS-TF or
something like that?

The extremely important thing that may be slipping through the cracks
in this discussion is that the locationID should be the identifier for
the whole content of the Location part of the record, not just one
part of it.

In other words the following combination would be appropriate:

higherGeopgraphy="Argentina, Tierra del Fuego"
stateProvince="Tierra del Fuego"

but the following combination would not:

higherGeopgraphy="Argentina, Tierra del Fuego"
stateProvince="Tierra del Fuego"
locality="seashore on route from city of Ushuaia to Ushuaia airport"


On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Markus Döring<m.doering at mac.com> wrote:
> so this would be acceptable?
> locationID="AGS-TF"
> higherGeography="Argentina;Parque Nacional Nahuel Huapi"
> countryCode="AR"
> it would be great to be able to specify the reference system for the id.
> I guess I have to make it a global ID "somehow" inventing URI schemes for
> non existing ones?
> locationID="tdwg:AGS-TF"
> locationID="ISO3166:AR"
> locationID="ISO3166:ARG"
> locationID="WOEID:564721"
> It wont be understood everywhere and there is no guarantee it really is
> globally unique, but it is probably good enough for most use cases and if
> the exchanging people agree on scheme prefixes it will work. Notmuch
> different from having a seperate reference term.
> thanks john!
> Markus
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 17:56, John R. WIECZOREK wrote:
>> For your first cases - protected areas or tdwg biogeographic regions
>> (and many other categories of places) - use the higherGeography term.
>> The comment for the term already shows an example containing a
>> protected area:
>> Example: "South America; Argentina; Patagonia; Parque Nacional Nahuel
>> Huapi; Neuquén; Los Lagos" with accompanying values "South America" in
>> Continent, "Argentina" in Country, "Neuquén" in StateProvince, and Los
>> Lagos in County.
>> In the case of the id, use locationID. If the value given in
>> locationID isn't resolvable all on its own (thus providing the
>> reference system), then it isn't a global identifier and it will have
>> meaning only within the data set.
>> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Markus Döring<m.doering at mac.com> wrote:
>>> This reminds me of another question I had for a long time.
>>> If I want to express a species is found within a protected area X or
>>> within
>>> the tdwg biogeographic region "AGS-TF, Tierra del Fuego (Argentina)" or
>>> as a
>>> yahoo where-on-earth-id, how would I encode this with dwc? Should I use
>>> dwc:locality, dc:location or through the new terms dwc:locationID? Is
>>> there
>>> a way to specify the "reference system" so others know where my ids come
>>> from?
>>> Markus
>>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 21:30, John R. WIECZOREK wrote:
>>>> Hi Gregor and others,
>>>> I greatly appreciate the comments. It gives me the incentive to cover
>>>> geographical issues that others have not touched yet in this
>>>> discussion. Geographical division relationships are even more complex
>>>> than taxonomic name hierarchies, and the DwC terms do not accommodate
>>>> the full complexity that exists. Happily though, I don't think they
>>>> have to.
>>>> The terms we have at the moment are those found most commonly in
>>>> biodiversity databases and derive their names from an unfortunate
>>>> North American geopolitical bias.
>>>> There are really four major problems. First, the names of geopolitical
>>>> divisions (state, province, etc.) are quite diverse (see some
>>>> statistics from the GADM database at the end of this message) and
>>>> cannot be well represented by any term name based on only one of them.
>>>> Second, the same term may apply to more than one level of subdivision
>>>> (e.g., both "state" and "province" occur as first and second level
>>>> subdivisions of countries; "county" and "city" both occur as first,
>>>> second, and third level subdivisions).  Third, two geopolitical
>>>> subdivisions of countries are insufficient to capture the full
>>>> diversity of subdivision systems in existence. Some countries have
>>>> three, four, or even five subdivisions.  Fourth, the use of a
>>>> particular subdivision may be ignored in some contexts while not in
>>>> others - there may be parallel or historical systems in use, one
>>>> person's first-order subdivision may be another person's second order
>>>> subdivision, or extra subdivisions may exist for some administrative
>>>> areas. Germany's Regierungsbezirk is a perfect example of the latter -
>>>> it exists within some Bundesländer and not within others.
>>>> I think the proposed "city" term would be a victim of all of the same
>>>> issues that the stateProvince and county terms have.
>>>> How do we solve these problems satisfactorily?
>>>> Country and countryCode, I propose, can be left as is.
>>>> To be fair while solving the first and second problems, the terms used
>>>> in DwC to atomize geographic subdivisions should be generic.
>>>> The third and fourth problems suggest that atomic subdivisions within
>>>> countries cannot be given unambiguous definitions. If their
>>>> interpretation and content will vary, do they have utility?
>>>> I'd like to be a purist - to be complete, clear, and consistent. If I
>>>> was, I'd propose only the following geographic terms:
>>>> countryCode, Locality, verbatimLocality
>>>> and I would count on georeferences to tell me the rest of what I need
>>>> to know based on my own world view during the period of interest.
>>>> Locality in this case would contain everything the contributor would
>>>> have otherwise put in higherGeography, continent, waterBody,
>>>> islandGroup, island, country, stateProvince, and county.
>>>> But I'm not a purist, I actually like things that are useful right now
>>>> too. Some of the concepts above that the purist me would discard are
>>>> actually useful from experience. I would put them in the following
>>>> order of diminishing utility: stateProvince, county, higherGeography,
>>>> country, waterBody, continent, island, islandGroup. Of these, two are
>>>> extremely useful but have problematic names - "stateProvince" and
>>>> "county". Though these have long historical precedents for use under
>>>> these names, I am not averse to making them more generic (plenty of
>>>> other names in DwC have had to be changed so as not to offend someone)
>>>> - something like "countrySubdivision1" and "countrySubdivision2". I
>>>> will actually make these changes unless I hear cogent arguments to the
>>>> contrary, soon.
>>>> The remaining questions in my mind are, "Does there need to be a
>>>> 'countrySubdivision3' term?" and "Why stop there? Why not include all
>>>> 5 subdivision levels?"  These I will not add unless there is support
>>>> expressed for the idea by more than just me.
>>>> Mind you, none of the proposed solution will actually help Gregor to
>>>> figure out where to put his city values, nor will it assure him that
>>>> he can find all relevant records if he searches for a city value in a
>>>> particular term because there is no guarantee that everyone shares his
>>>> world view in their input data. Here again I argue that the only
>>>> reasonable chance of success is through a spatial query, requiring all
>>>> records to be georeferenced. Hey, at least there is a definitive
>>>> solution. ;-)
>>>> The rest of this message contains information about the content of the
>>>> GADM administrative areas database version 1.0, which informs the
>>>> discussion above.
>>>> Counts of geopolitical subdivision types within countries:
>>>> Level:Count
>>>> 1:240 (in other words 240 names for administrative features such as
>>>> "state", "province", etc. at the first subdivision of countries)
>>>> 2:215 (...215 names for administrative features such as "county" at
>>>> the second subdivision of countries)
>>>> 3:126
>>>> 4:25
>>>> 5:2
>>>> Counts of geopolitical entities for each level:
>>>> Level:Count
>>>> 0:248 (countries)
>>>> 1:3366 ("states", "provinces", etc.)
>>>> 2:39136 ("counties", etc.)
>>>> 3:99097
>>>> 4:40550
>>>> 5:3655
>>>> Names for geopolitical subdivisions from GADM version 1.0:
>>>> Aboriginal Council, Administrative Area, Administrative Committee,
>>>> Administrative County, Administrative Region, Administrative State,
>>>> Administrative Zone, Aftonomi Monastiki Politia, Aimag, Amphoe, Amt,
>>>> Anchal, AOk, Aprinki, Apskritis, Area, Arrondissement, Arrondissment,
>>>> Assembly, Astedader Akababi, Atoll, Automonous Region, Autonomous
>>>> Banner, Autonomous City, Autonomous Commune, Autonomous Community,
>>>> Autonomous County, Autonomous Island, Autonomous Monastic State,
>>>> Autonomous Okurg, Autonomous Prefecture, Autonomous Province,
>>>> Autonomous Region, Autonomous Republic, Autonomous Sector, Autonomous
>>>> Territory, Avtonomiuri Respublika, Avtonomnaya Oblast, Avtonomnyy
>>>> Okrug, aymag, Baladiyah, Banner, Barangay, Bashkia, Bayan, Bezirke,
>>>> Bibhag, Boma, Borough, Bundesland, Bundesländ, Canton, Canton
>>>> Municipality, Capital, Capital City, Capital District, Capital
>>>> Metropolitan City, Capital Region, Capital Territory, Castello, Census
>>>> Area, Census Division, Centrally Administered Area, Cercle, Changwat,
>>>> Chantun, Chartered Community, Chef-Lieu-Wilaya, Chiefdom, Chuan-shih,
>>>> Circle, Circuit, Cité, City, City and Borough, City and County, City
>>>> council, City Municipality, Ciudad Autónoma, Ciudades Autónomas, Clan,
>>>> Colline, Comarca, Comarca Indígena, Comisaría, Commissiary, Communauté
>>>> Urbaine, Commune, Commune and Prefecture, Commune and Préfecture,
>>>> Commune Autonome, Commune Rural, Commune Urbaine, Commune-Cotiere,
>>>> Community, Community Government Council, Comuna, Comunidad Autónoma,
>>>> Concelho, Conservancy, Constituency, Constituent Country,
>>>> Corregimiento, Corregimiento Departamento, Country, County, County
>>>> City, County Municipality, Daerah Istimewa, Daerah Khusus Ibukota,
>>>> Daerah-Daerah, Delegation, Departamento, Département, Department,
>>>> Dependencias Federales, Dependency, Development Region, Diamerismata,
>>>> Dìjíshì, Dìqu, Directly Governed City, District, District Council,
>>>> District Municipality, Distrik, Distrikkaya, Distrikt, Distrito,
>>>> Distrito Capital, Distrito Federal, Division, Do, Dzongkhag, Economic
>>>> Prefecture, Eilandgebieden, Ekonomisk region, Emirate, Entity, Estado,
>>>> Établissemnet Indien, Faritany Mizakatena, Faritra, Federal
>>>> Dependency, Federal District, Federal State, Fivondronana, Fokontany,
>>>> Fovaros, Fu, Fylke, Gemeente, Gemeinden, Gobolka, Gorod, Gorsovet,
>>>> Governarate, Governorate, Grad, Gu, Gun, Guyŏk, Gwangyeoksi, Hamlet,
>>>> Headquarter, Home Nation, Hoofdstedelijk Gewest, Hot, Hsien, Huyện,
>>>> Il, Improvement District, Independent City, Independent Town, Indian
>>>> Government District, Indian Reserve, Indian Settlement, Indigenous
>>>> Territory, Intendancy, Intendencia, Inuite Land, Island, Island Area,
>>>> Island Council, Island Group, Island Municipality, Island Region,
>>>> Itumalo, Jilla, Judet, Kabupaten, Kaghak, K'alak'i, Kampeng Nakhon,
>>>> Kanton, Kata, Kata Ndogo, Kaupstadir, Kayaing, Ken, Khet, Khêt,
>>>> Khetphiset, Khoueng, Khum, Kilil, King Amphoe, Kingdom, Kommun,
>>>> Kommuneat, Kommuner, Kommunur, Kotamadya, Kraj, Kray, Kreisfreie
>>>> Städte, Krong, Kunta, Lääni, Laen, Lake, Lalawigan, län, Land, Länd,
>>>> Land Reserved, Landkreise, landskap, Landsvæði, Lansdele, League,
>>>> Local Authority, Local Government Area, Local Government District,
>>>> Localidad, Locality, Location, London Borough, London Borough (city),
>>>> London Borough (royal), Lungsod, Maakond, Maakunta, Machi, Magisterial
>>>> District, Marz, Maslikhat, Megye, Mehoz, Méng, Metropolis,
>>>> Metropolitan Borough (city), Metropolitan City, Metropolitan County,
>>>> Metropolitan District, Miesto Savivaldybe, Minor district, Mintaqah,
>>>> Mis'ka Rada, Misto, Mkoa, Moughataas, Muderiah, Muhafazah, Mukim,
>>>> Municipal, Municipal District, Municipalité, Municipalité De Canton,
>>>> Municipalité De Cantons Unis, Municipalité De Paroisse, Municipalité
>>>> Régionale de Comté, Municipality, Municipality / Mun. Council,
>>>> Municipality/Municipal Council, Municipio, Município, Municipio
>>>> Especial, Municipiu, Municpality, Munisipyo, Muong, Mura, Nahia,
>>>> National Capital Area, National District, National Park, National
>>>> Territory, Neighbourhood Democratic, Neutral City, New District,
>>>> Nisga'a Land, Nisga'a Village, Nomos, Non Organisé, Northern Hamlet,
>>>> Northern Village, Not Classified, Oblast, Oblast', Oblasy, Obshtina,
>>>> Okres, Okrug, Opcine, Opština, Opštine, Ostan, Outlying Island,
>>>> Parish, Parish Municipality, Parroquia, Parròquia, Part, Partido,
>>>> Phum, Po, Poblacion, Población, Powiat, Prefecture, Préfecture,
>>>> Prefecture City, Prefegitura, Principality, Probinsya, Propinsi,
>>>> Province, Provincia, Província, Provincie, Provinsie, Pyine, Qark, Qí,
>>>> Quận, Quarter, Qúndao, Raion, Raioni, rajoni, Rajono Savivaldybe,
>>>> Rayon, Reef, Regencies, Regency, Região, Regierungsbezirk, Regiões
>>>> autônoma, Region, Región, Région, Región Autónoma, Région Capitale,
>>>> Regional Council, Regional County Municipality, Regional District,
>>>> Regional District Electoral Area, Regional Municipality, Regione,
>>>> Republic, Repuplikasi, Reserve, Réserve Indienne, Resort Village,
>>>> Respublika, Ressort, Rreth, Rural City, Rural Commune, Rural
>>>> Community, Rural district, Rural Municipality, Sahar, Savivaldybe,
>>>> Sector, Sector Autónomo, Senatorial District, Settlement, Seutukunta,
>>>> Sha'biyah, Sha'biyat, Shahar, Shahrestan, Shěng, Shi, Shire, Shìxiáqū,
>>>> Si, Siyudad, Soum, Sous Colline, Sous-préfecture, Sous-régions,
>>>> Special Administrative Region, Special Area, Special City, Special
>>>> district, Special Municipality, Special Region, Special Ward,
>>>> Specialized Municipality, Srok, State, Statistical Region, Statisticna
>>>> Regije, Statutární město, Statutarstädte, Statutory City, Sub
>>>> district, Sub location, Sub Town, Sub-chief, Sub-county, Sub-district,
>>>> Subdivision of County Municipality, Subdivision of Unorganized,
>>>> Sub-prefecture, Sub-Province, Sub-region, Sum, Summer Village,
>>>> Sveitarfélög , sýsla, Syssel, Taarafa, Taluk, Tambon, Tarafa, Tèqū,
>>>> Terre Inuite, Terres Réservées, Territoire, Territorial Authority,
>>>> Territorial Unit, Territorio Nacional, Territory, Teslin Land,
>>>> Teukbyeolsi, Than Pho, Thana, Thanh Pho, Thành phố trực thuộc tỉnh,
>>>> Thi xa, Tỉnh, To, Town, Town Council, Townlet, Township, Township and
>>>> Royalty, Traditional Authority, Traditional County, T'ŭkbyŏl
>>>> Haengjeonggu, Uknown, Union Territor, Union Territory, Unitary
>>>> Authority, Unitary Authority (city), Unitary Authority (county),
>>>> Unitary Authority (wales, Unitary Authority (wales), Unitary District,
>>>> Unitary District (city), Unitate Teritorială Autonomă, Unitatea
>>>> Teritorială, United Cantons Municipality, United Counties, United
>>>> County, Unknown, Unorganized, Upazila, Urban, Urban Commune, Urban
>>>> district, Urban Prefecture, Velayat, Vikas Kshetra, Village, Village
>>>> Cri, Village Naskapi, Village Nordique, Ville, Viloiati Mukhtori,
>>>> Viloyat, Viloyati Avtonomii, Voblasts', Voivodeship, Ward, Water body,
>>>> Waterbody, Welayat, Wilaya, Wilayat, Willaya, Wiloyat, Województwo,
>>>> Woreda, Xiàn, Xiànjíshì, Xíngzhèng Wěiyuánhuì, Xīnqū, Yin, Zhíxiáshì,
>>>> Zila, Zìzhìqí, Zizhiqu, Zìzhìqu, Zìzhìxiàn, Zìzhìzhou, Zìzhìzhōu,
>>>> Zoba, Zone, Županija,
>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Gregor Hagedorn<g.m.hagedorn at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> At the moment I can only add small bits of geo-relevant comments to
>>>>> the dwc effort:
>>>>> --------
>>>>> 1. While studying the available terms for describing
>>>>> biodiversity-related images for MRTG, trying to reuse as many dwc
>>>>> terms as possible (unless higher priority standards already exists,
>>>>> such as dc or xmp, see
>>>>> http://www.keytonature.eu/wiki/MRTG_Schema_v0.7#Geography_Vocabulary),
>>>>> we note the conspicuous absence of
>>>>> ** city or place name **
>>>>> The term is available in iptc geo extension and is likely to be in the
>>>>> future routinely used on digital images. dwc has
>>>>> http://purl.org/dc/terms/Location
>>>>> Has Domain:
>>>>> Definition:     A spatial region or named place.
>>>>> and
>>>>> Identifier:     http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/locality
>>>>> Has Domain:     http://purl.org/dc/terms/Location
>>>>> Definition:     The specific description of the place. Less specific
>>>>> geographic information can be provided in other geographic terms
>>>>> (higherGeography, continent, country, stateProvince, county,
>>>>> waterBody, island, islandGroup). This term may contain information
>>>>> modified from the the original to correct perceived errors or
>>>>> standardize the description.
>>>>> Comment:        Example: "Bariloche, 25 km NNE via Ruta Nacional 40
>>>>> (=Ruta
>>>>> 237)". For discussion see
>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/wiki/Location
>>>>> However, the first is very wide, and does not give the information
>>>>> that the type of object is a place or city name (it could be
>>>>> circumscription names like a province), the second is free from text.
>>>>> In many densely populated areas, separating the city or village name
>>>>> for easier finding is recommended, because these terms do occur in
>>>>> gazetteers. Could this be added to DWC?
>>>>> --------
>>>>> 2. If clarity is more important than brevity, I would greatly prefer
>>>>> stateOrProvince over the current stateProvince, which literally is the
>>>>> province of a state, which more less exists in Germany as
>>>>> administration province of a state of the federal republic
>>>>> (Regierungsbezirk).
>>>>> --------
>>>>> 3. The definition of county (perhaps better more international as
>>>>> "County or Subprovince") is:
>>>>> Term Name: county
>>>>> Identifier:     http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/county
>>>>> Has Domain:     http://purl.org/dc/terms/Location
>>>>> Definition:     The full, unabbreviated name of the next smaller
>>>>> political
>>>>> region than StateProvince (county, shire, department, etc.) in which
>>>>> the Location occurs.
>>>>> Comment:        Examples: "Missoula", "Los Lagos", "Mataró". For
>>>>> discussion
>>>>> see http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/wiki/Location
>>>>> Here, wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County) suggests to
>>>>> interpret the German Kreis as equivalent to county; however, the
>>>>> literal definition above would require to map county to
>>>>> Regierungsbezirk.
>>>>> Many countries have a hierarchy of adminstrative political regions,
>>>>> and the highest may often not be the most relevant ones.
>>>>> I suggest to weaken the definition to a suggestions, perhaps:
>>>>> Definition:      The full, unabbreviated name of the most relevant
>>>>> political region between cities or villages and states or provinces
>>>>> (county, shire, department, etc.) in which the Location occurs.
>>>>> Gregor
>>>>> --
>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>> Dr. Gregor Hagedorn
>>>>> Heinrich-Seidel-Str. 2
>>>>> 12167 Berlin
>>>>> skype: g.hagedorn
>>>>> This message is sent on a personal basis and does not constitute an
>>>>> activity of the German Federal Government or its research
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>>>>> only for the person to whom it is addressed and may not be
>>>>> redistributed or published without permission.
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