[tdwg-content] dwc: city to county

Markus Döring m.doering at mac.com
Tue Aug 18 18:57:59 CEST 2009

I was thinking of using the terms for synthesized species  
distributions, not individual occurrence records.
Initially I thought about using locality to specify a "named area",  
but I figured the term is too small scale for this use. Really I am  
looking for a term to represent the terminal named area, no matter  
what "rank" it is. locationID is perfect, ideally in company with dc/ 
dwc:location, but dwc:higherGeography might do the trick.


On Aug 18, 2009, at 18:47, John R. WIECZOREK wrote:

> Seems like if the locationID is referring to a value in a standard (in
> this case a term in a vocabulary) it should be resolvable, so why not
> locationID=rs.tdwg.org/ontology/voc/GeographicRegion#AGS-TF or
> something like that?
> The extremely important thing that may be slipping through the cracks
> in this discussion is that the locationID should be the identifier for
> the whole content of the Location part of the record, not just one
> part of it.
> In other words the following combination would be appropriate:
> locationID="rs.tdwg.org/ontology/voc/GeographicRegion#AGS-TF"
> higherGeopgraphy="Argentina, Tierra del Fuego"
> country="Argentina"
> countryCode="AR"
> stateProvince="Tierra del Fuego"
> locality={null}
> but the following combination would not:
> locationID="rs.tdwg.org/ontology/voc/GeographicRegion#AGS-TF"
> higherGeopgraphy="Argentina, Tierra del Fuego"
> country="Argentina"
> countryCode="AR"
> stateProvince="Tierra del Fuego"
> locality="seashore on route from city of Ushuaia to Ushuaia airport"
> John
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Markus Döring<m.doering at mac.com>  
> wrote:
>> so this would be acceptable?
>> locationID="AGS-TF"
>> higherGeography="Argentina;Parque Nacional Nahuel Huapi"
>> countryCode="AR"
>> it would be great to be able to specify the reference system for  
>> the id.
>> I guess I have to make it a global ID "somehow" inventing URI  
>> schemes for
>> non existing ones?
>> locationID="tdwg:AGS-TF"
>> locationID="ISO3166:AR"
>> locationID="ISO3166:ARG"
>> locationID="WOEID:564721"
>> It wont be understood everywhere and there is no guarantee it  
>> really is
>> globally unique, but it is probably good enough for most use cases  
>> and if
>> the exchanging people agree on scheme prefixes it will work. Notmuch
>> different from having a seperate reference term.
>> thanks john!
>> Markus
>> On Aug 18, 2009, at 17:56, John R. WIECZOREK wrote:
>>> For your first cases - protected areas or tdwg biogeographic regions
>>> (and many other categories of places) - use the higherGeography  
>>> term.
>>> The comment for the term already shows an example containing a
>>> protected area:
>>> Example: "South America; Argentina; Patagonia; Parque Nacional  
>>> Nahuel
>>> Huapi; Neuquén; Los Lagos" with accompanying values "South  
>>> America" in
>>> Continent, "Argentina" in Country, "Neuquén" in StateProvince, and  
>>> Los
>>> Lagos in County.
>>> In the case of the id, use locationID. If the value given in
>>> locationID isn't resolvable all on its own (thus providing the
>>> reference system), then it isn't a global identifier and it will  
>>> have
>>> meaning only within the data set.
>>> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Markus Döring<m.doering at mac.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>>> This reminds me of another question I had for a long time.
>>>> If I want to express a species is found within a protected area X  
>>>> or
>>>> within
>>>> the tdwg biogeographic region "AGS-TF, Tierra del Fuego  
>>>> (Argentina)" or
>>>> as a
>>>> yahoo where-on-earth-id, how would I encode this with dwc? Should  
>>>> I use
>>>> dwc:locality, dc:location or through the new terms  
>>>> dwc:locationID? Is
>>>> there
>>>> a way to specify the "reference system" so others know where my  
>>>> ids come
>>>> from?
>>>> Markus
>>>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 21:30, John R. WIECZOREK wrote:
>>>>> Hi Gregor and others,
>>>>> I greatly appreciate the comments. It gives me the incentive to  
>>>>> cover
>>>>> geographical issues that others have not touched yet in this
>>>>> discussion. Geographical division relationships are even more  
>>>>> complex
>>>>> than taxonomic name hierarchies, and the DwC terms do not  
>>>>> accommodate
>>>>> the full complexity that exists. Happily though, I don't think  
>>>>> they
>>>>> have to.
>>>>> The terms we have at the moment are those found most commonly in
>>>>> biodiversity databases and derive their names from an unfortunate
>>>>> North American geopolitical bias.
>>>>> There are really four major problems. First, the names of  
>>>>> geopolitical
>>>>> divisions (state, province, etc.) are quite diverse (see some
>>>>> statistics from the GADM database at the end of this message) and
>>>>> cannot be well represented by any term name based on only one of  
>>>>> them.
>>>>> Second, the same term may apply to more than one level of  
>>>>> subdivision
>>>>> (e.g., both "state" and "province" occur as first and second level
>>>>> subdivisions of countries; "county" and "city" both occur as  
>>>>> first,
>>>>> second, and third level subdivisions).  Third, two geopolitical
>>>>> subdivisions of countries are insufficient to capture the full
>>>>> diversity of subdivision systems in existence. Some countries have
>>>>> three, four, or even five subdivisions.  Fourth, the use of a
>>>>> particular subdivision may be ignored in some contexts while not  
>>>>> in
>>>>> others - there may be parallel or historical systems in use, one
>>>>> person's first-order subdivision may be another person's second  
>>>>> order
>>>>> subdivision, or extra subdivisions may exist for some  
>>>>> administrative
>>>>> areas. Germany's Regierungsbezirk is a perfect example of the  
>>>>> latter -
>>>>> it exists within some Bundesländer and not within others.
>>>>> I think the proposed "city" term would be a victim of all of the  
>>>>> same
>>>>> issues that the stateProvince and county terms have.
>>>>> How do we solve these problems satisfactorily?
>>>>> Country and countryCode, I propose, can be left as is.
>>>>> To be fair while solving the first and second problems, the  
>>>>> terms used
>>>>> in DwC to atomize geographic subdivisions should be generic.
>>>>> The third and fourth problems suggest that atomic subdivisions  
>>>>> within
>>>>> countries cannot be given unambiguous definitions. If their
>>>>> interpretation and content will vary, do they have utility?
>>>>> I'd like to be a purist - to be complete, clear, and consistent.  
>>>>> If I
>>>>> was, I'd propose only the following geographic terms:
>>>>> countryCode, Locality, verbatimLocality
>>>>> and I would count on georeferences to tell me the rest of what I  
>>>>> need
>>>>> to know based on my own world view during the period of interest.
>>>>> Locality in this case would contain everything the contributor  
>>>>> would
>>>>> have otherwise put in higherGeography, continent, waterBody,
>>>>> islandGroup, island, country, stateProvince, and county.
>>>>> But I'm not a purist, I actually like things that are useful  
>>>>> right now
>>>>> too. Some of the concepts above that the purist me would discard  
>>>>> are
>>>>> actually useful from experience. I would put them in the following
>>>>> order of diminishing utility: stateProvince, county,  
>>>>> higherGeography,
>>>>> country, waterBody, continent, island, islandGroup. Of these,  
>>>>> two are
>>>>> extremely useful but have problematic names - "stateProvince" and
>>>>> "county". Though these have long historical precedents for use  
>>>>> under
>>>>> these names, I am not averse to making them more generic (plenty  
>>>>> of
>>>>> other names in DwC have had to be changed so as not to offend  
>>>>> someone)
>>>>> - something like "countrySubdivision1" and  
>>>>> "countrySubdivision2". I
>>>>> will actually make these changes unless I hear cogent arguments  
>>>>> to the
>>>>> contrary, soon.
>>>>> The remaining questions in my mind are, "Does there need to be a
>>>>> 'countrySubdivision3' term?" and "Why stop there? Why not  
>>>>> include all
>>>>> 5 subdivision levels?"  These I will not add unless there is  
>>>>> support
>>>>> expressed for the idea by more than just me.
>>>>> Mind you, none of the proposed solution will actually help  
>>>>> Gregor to
>>>>> figure out where to put his city values, nor will it assure him  
>>>>> that
>>>>> he can find all relevant records if he searches for a city value  
>>>>> in a
>>>>> particular term because there is no guarantee that everyone  
>>>>> shares his
>>>>> world view in their input data. Here again I argue that the only
>>>>> reasonable chance of success is through a spatial query,  
>>>>> requiring all
>>>>> records to be georeferenced. Hey, at least there is a definitive
>>>>> solution. ;-)
>>>>> The rest of this message contains information about the content  
>>>>> of the
>>>>> GADM administrative areas database version 1.0, which informs the
>>>>> discussion above.
>>>>> Counts of geopolitical subdivision types within countries:
>>>>> Level:Count
>>>>> 1:240 (in other words 240 names for administrative features such  
>>>>> as
>>>>> "state", "province", etc. at the first subdivision of countries)
>>>>> 2:215 (...215 names for administrative features such as "county"  
>>>>> at
>>>>> the second subdivision of countries)
>>>>> 3:126
>>>>> 4:25
>>>>> 5:2
>>>>> Counts of geopolitical entities for each level:
>>>>> Level:Count
>>>>> 0:248 (countries)
>>>>> 1:3366 ("states", "provinces", etc.)
>>>>> 2:39136 ("counties", etc.)
>>>>> 3:99097
>>>>> 4:40550
>>>>> 5:3655
>>>>> Names for geopolitical subdivisions from GADM version 1.0:
>>>>> Aboriginal Council, Administrative Area, Administrative Committee,
>>>>> Administrative County, Administrative Region, Administrative  
>>>>> State,
>>>>> Administrative Zone, Aftonomi Monastiki Politia, Aimag, Amphoe,  
>>>>> Amt,
>>>>> Anchal, AOk, Aprinki, Apskritis, Area, Arrondissement,  
>>>>> Arrondissment,
>>>>> Assembly, Astedader Akababi, Atoll, Automonous Region, Autonomous
>>>>> Banner, Autonomous City, Autonomous Commune, Autonomous Community,
>>>>> Autonomous County, Autonomous Island, Autonomous Monastic State,
>>>>> Autonomous Okurg, Autonomous Prefecture, Autonomous Province,
>>>>> Autonomous Region, Autonomous Republic, Autonomous Sector,  
>>>>> Autonomous
>>>>> Territory, Avtonomiuri Respublika, Avtonomnaya Oblast, Avtonomnyy
>>>>> Okrug, aymag, Baladiyah, Banner, Barangay, Bashkia, Bayan,  
>>>>> Bezirke,
>>>>> Bibhag, Boma, Borough, Bundesland, Bundesländ, Canton, Canton
>>>>> Municipality, Capital, Capital City, Capital District, Capital
>>>>> Metropolitan City, Capital Region, Capital Territory, Castello,  
>>>>> Census
>>>>> Area, Census Division, Centrally Administered Area, Cercle,  
>>>>> Changwat,
>>>>> Chantun, Chartered Community, Chef-Lieu-Wilaya, Chiefdom, Chuan- 
>>>>> shih,
>>>>> Circle, Circuit, Cité, City, City and Borough, City and County,  
>>>>> City
>>>>> council, City Municipality, Ciudad Autónoma, Ciudades  
>>>>> Autónomas, Clan,
>>>>> Colline, Comarca, Comarca Indígena, Comisaría, Commissiary,  
>>>>> Communauté
>>>>> Urbaine, Commune, Commune and Prefecture, Commune and Préfecture,
>>>>> Commune Autonome, Commune Rural, Commune Urbaine, Commune-Cotiere,
>>>>> Community, Community Government Council, Comuna, Comunidad  
>>>>> Autónoma,
>>>>> Concelho, Conservancy, Constituency, Constituent Country,
>>>>> Corregimiento, Corregimiento Departamento, Country, County, County
>>>>> City, County Municipality, Daerah Istimewa, Daerah Khusus Ibukota,
>>>>> Daerah-Daerah, Delegation, Departamento, Département, Department,
>>>>> Dependencias Federales, Dependency, Development Region,  
>>>>> Diamerismata,
>>>>> Dìjíshì, Dìqu, Directly Governed City, District, District  
>>>>> Council,
>>>>> District Municipality, Distrik, Distrikkaya, Distrikt, Distrito,
>>>>> Distrito Capital, Distrito Federal, Division, Do, Dzongkhag,  
>>>>> Economic
>>>>> Prefecture, Eilandgebieden, Ekonomisk region, Emirate, Entity,  
>>>>> Estado,
>>>>> Établissemnet Indien, Faritany Mizakatena, Faritra, Federal
>>>>> Dependency, Federal District, Federal State, Fivondronana,  
>>>>> Fokontany,
>>>>> Fovaros, Fu, Fylke, Gemeente, Gemeinden, Gobolka, Gorod, Gorsovet,
>>>>> Governarate, Governorate, Grad, Gu, Gun, Guyŏk, Gwangyeoksi,  
>>>>> Hamlet,
>>>>> Headquarter, Home Nation, Hoofdstedelijk Gewest, Hot, Hsien,  
>>>>> Huyện,
>>>>> Il, Improvement District, Independent City, Independent Town,  
>>>>> Indian
>>>>> Government District, Indian Reserve, Indian Settlement, Indigenous
>>>>> Territory, Intendancy, Intendencia, Inuite Land, Island, Island  
>>>>> Area,
>>>>> Island Council, Island Group, Island Municipality, Island Region,
>>>>> Itumalo, Jilla, Judet, Kabupaten, Kaghak, K'alak'i, Kampeng  
>>>>> Nakhon,
>>>>> Kanton, Kata, Kata Ndogo, Kaupstadir, Kayaing, Ken, Khet, Khêt,
>>>>> Khetphiset, Khoueng, Khum, Kilil, King Amphoe, Kingdom, Kommun,
>>>>> Kommuneat, Kommuner, Kommunur, Kotamadya, Kraj, Kray, Kreisfreie
>>>>> Städte, Krong, Kunta, Lääni, Laen, Lake, Lalawigan, län,  
>>>>> Land, Länd,
>>>>> Land Reserved, Landkreise, landskap, Landsvæði, Lansdele,  
>>>>> League,
>>>>> Local Authority, Local Government Area, Local Government District,
>>>>> Localidad, Locality, Location, London Borough, London Borough  
>>>>> (city),
>>>>> London Borough (royal), Lungsod, Maakond, Maakunta, Machi,  
>>>>> Magisterial
>>>>> District, Marz, Maslikhat, Megye, Mehoz, Méng, Metropolis,
>>>>> Metropolitan Borough (city), Metropolitan City, Metropolitan  
>>>>> County,
>>>>> Metropolitan District, Miesto Savivaldybe, Minor district,  
>>>>> Mintaqah,
>>>>> Mis'ka Rada, Misto, Mkoa, Moughataas, Muderiah, Muhafazah, Mukim,
>>>>> Municipal, Municipal District, Municipalité, Municipalité De  
>>>>> Canton,
>>>>> Municipalité De Cantons Unis, Municipalité De Paroisse,  
>>>>> Municipalité
>>>>> Régionale de Comté, Municipality, Municipality / Mun. Council,
>>>>> Municipality/Municipal Council, Municipio, Município, Municipio
>>>>> Especial, Municipiu, Municpality, Munisipyo, Muong, Mura, Nahia,
>>>>> National Capital Area, National District, National Park, National
>>>>> Territory, Neighbourhood Democratic, Neutral City, New District,
>>>>> Nisga'a Land, Nisga'a Village, Nomos, Non Organisé, Northern  
>>>>> Hamlet,
>>>>> Northern Village, Not Classified, Oblast, Oblast', Oblasy,  
>>>>> Obshtina,
>>>>> Okres, Okrug, Opcine, Opština, Opštine, Ostan, Outlying Island,
>>>>> Parish, Parish Municipality, Parroquia, Parròquia, Part, Partido,
>>>>> Phum, Po, Poblacion, Población, Powiat, Prefecture, Préfecture,
>>>>> Prefecture City, Prefegitura, Principality, Probinsya, Propinsi,
>>>>> Province, Provincia, Província, Provincie, Provinsie, Pyine,  
>>>>> Qark, Qí,
>>>>> Quận, Quarter, Qúndao, Raion, Raioni, rajoni, Rajono  
>>>>> Savivaldybe,
>>>>> Rayon, Reef, Regencies, Regency, Região, Regierungsbezirk,  
>>>>> Regiões
>>>>> autônoma, Region, Región, Région, Región Autónoma, Région  
>>>>> Capitale,
>>>>> Regional Council, Regional County Municipality, Regional District,
>>>>> Regional District Electoral Area, Regional Municipality, Regione,
>>>>> Republic, Repuplikasi, Reserve, Réserve Indienne, Resort Village,
>>>>> Respublika, Ressort, Rreth, Rural City, Rural Commune, Rural
>>>>> Community, Rural district, Rural Municipality, Sahar, Savivaldybe,
>>>>> Sector, Sector Autónomo, Senatorial District, Settlement,  
>>>>> Seutukunta,
>>>>> Sha'biyah, Sha'biyat, Shahar, Shahrestan, Shěng, Shi, Shire,  
>>>>> Shìxiáqū,
>>>>> Si, Siyudad, Soum, Sous Colline, Sous-préfecture, Sous-régions,
>>>>> Special Administrative Region, Special Area, Special City, Special
>>>>> district, Special Municipality, Special Region, Special Ward,
>>>>> Specialized Municipality, Srok, State, Statistical Region,  
>>>>> Statisticna
>>>>> Regije, Statutární město, Statutarstädte, Statutory City, Sub
>>>>> district, Sub location, Sub Town, Sub-chief, Sub-county, Sub- 
>>>>> district,
>>>>> Subdivision of County Municipality, Subdivision of Unorganized,
>>>>> Sub-prefecture, Sub-Province, Sub-region, Sum, Summer Village,
>>>>> Sveitarfélög , sýsla, Syssel, Taarafa, Taluk, Tambon, Tarafa,  
>>>>> Tèqū,
>>>>> Terre Inuite, Terres Réservées, Territoire, Territorial  
>>>>> Authority,
>>>>> Territorial Unit, Territorio Nacional, Territory, Teslin Land,
>>>>> Teukbyeolsi, Than Pho, Thana, Thanh Pho, Thành phố trực  
>>>>> thuộc tỉnh,
>>>>> Thi xa, Tỉnh, To, Town, Town Council, Townlet, Township,  
>>>>> Township and
>>>>> Royalty, Traditional Authority, Traditional County, T'ŭkbyŏl
>>>>> Haengjeonggu, Uknown, Union Territor, Union Territory, Unitary
>>>>> Authority, Unitary Authority (city), Unitary Authority (county),
>>>>> Unitary Authority (wales, Unitary Authority (wales), Unitary  
>>>>> District,
>>>>> Unitary District (city), Unitate Teritorială Autonomă, Unitatea
>>>>> Teritorială, United Cantons Municipality, United Counties, United
>>>>> County, Unknown, Unorganized, Upazila, Urban, Urban Commune, Urban
>>>>> district, Urban Prefecture, Velayat, Vikas Kshetra, Village,  
>>>>> Village
>>>>> Cri, Village Naskapi, Village Nordique, Ville, Viloiati Mukhtori,
>>>>> Viloyat, Viloyati Avtonomii, Voblasts', Voivodeship, Ward, Water  
>>>>> body,
>>>>> Waterbody, Welayat, Wilaya, Wilayat, Willaya, Wiloyat,  
>>>>> Województwo,
>>>>> Woreda, Xiàn, Xiànjíshì, Xíngzhèng Wěiyuánhuì, Xīnqū,  
>>>>> Yin, Zhíxiáshì,
>>>>> Zila, Zìzhìqí, Zizhiqu, Zìzhìqu, Zìzhìxiàn, Zìzhìzhou,  
>>>>> Zìzhìzhōu,
>>>>> Zoba, Zone, Županija,
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Gregor Hagedorn<g.m.hagedorn at gmail.com 
>>>>> >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> At the moment I can only add small bits of geo-relevant  
>>>>>> comments to
>>>>>> the dwc effort:
>>>>>> --------
>>>>>> 1. While studying the available terms for describing
>>>>>> biodiversity-related images for MRTG, trying to reuse as many dwc
>>>>>> terms as possible (unless higher priority standards already  
>>>>>> exists,
>>>>>> such as dc or xmp, see
>>>>>> http://www.keytonature.eu/wiki/MRTG_Schema_v0.7#Geography_Vocabulary) 
>>>>>> ,
>>>>>> we note the conspicuous absence of
>>>>>> ** city or place name **
>>>>>> The term is available in iptc geo extension and is likely to be  
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> future routinely used on digital images. dwc has
>>>>>> http://purl.org/dc/terms/Location
>>>>>> Has Domain:
>>>>>> Definition:     A spatial region or named place.
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Identifier:     http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/locality
>>>>>> Has Domain:     http://purl.org/dc/terms/Location
>>>>>> Definition:     The specific description of the place. Less  
>>>>>> specific
>>>>>> geographic information can be provided in other geographic terms
>>>>>> (higherGeography, continent, country, stateProvince, county,
>>>>>> waterBody, island, islandGroup). This term may contain  
>>>>>> information
>>>>>> modified from the the original to correct perceived errors or
>>>>>> standardize the description.
>>>>>> Comment:        Example: "Bariloche, 25 km NNE via Ruta  
>>>>>> Nacional 40
>>>>>> (=Ruta
>>>>>> 237)". For discussion see
>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/wiki/Location
>>>>>> However, the first is very wide, and does not give the  
>>>>>> information
>>>>>> that the type of object is a place or city name (it could be
>>>>>> circumscription names like a province), the second is free from  
>>>>>> text.
>>>>>> In many densely populated areas, separating the city or village  
>>>>>> name
>>>>>> for easier finding is recommended, because these terms do occur  
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> gazetteers. Could this be added to DWC?
>>>>>> --------
>>>>>> 2. If clarity is more important than brevity, I would greatly  
>>>>>> prefer
>>>>>> stateOrProvince over the current stateProvince, which literally  
>>>>>> is the
>>>>>> province of a state, which more less exists in Germany as
>>>>>> administration province of a state of the federal republic
>>>>>> (Regierungsbezirk).
>>>>>> --------
>>>>>> 3. The definition of county (perhaps better more international as
>>>>>> "County or Subprovince") is:
>>>>>> Term Name: county
>>>>>> Identifier:     http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/county
>>>>>> Has Domain:     http://purl.org/dc/terms/Location
>>>>>> Definition:     The full, unabbreviated name of the next smaller
>>>>>> political
>>>>>> region than StateProvince (county, shire, department, etc.) in  
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> the Location occurs.
>>>>>> Comment:        Examples: "Missoula", "Los Lagos", "Mataró". For
>>>>>> discussion
>>>>>> see http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/wiki/Location
>>>>>> Here, wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County) suggests to
>>>>>> interpret the German Kreis as equivalent to county; however, the
>>>>>> literal definition above would require to map county to
>>>>>> Regierungsbezirk.
>>>>>> Many countries have a hierarchy of adminstrative political  
>>>>>> regions,
>>>>>> and the highest may often not be the most relevant ones.
>>>>>> I suggest to weaken the definition to a suggestions, perhaps:
>>>>>> Definition:      The full, unabbreviated name of the most  
>>>>>> relevant
>>>>>> political region between cities or villages and states or  
>>>>>> provinces
>>>>>> (county, shire, department, etc.) in which the Location occurs.
>>>>>> Gregor
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>> Dr. Gregor Hagedorn
>>>>>> Heinrich-Seidel-Str. 2
>>>>>> 12167 Berlin
>>>>>> skype: g.hagedorn
>>>>>> This message is sent on a personal basis and does not  
>>>>>> constitute an
>>>>>> activity of the German Federal Government or its research
>>>>>> institutions. Together with any attachments, this message is  
>>>>>> intended
>>>>>> only for the person to whom it is addressed and may not be
>>>>>> redistributed or published without permission.
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