"resolution" of URIs usually used improperly
Is it too pedantic to wish that people would not use "resolve" when they mean "dereference"? The terms are distinguished in RFC 3986[1]: "URI "resolution" is the process of determining an access mechanism and the appropriate parameters necessary to dereference a URI; this resolution may require several iterations. To use that access mechanism to perform an action on the URI's resource is to "dereference" the URI." [1]
I bet the concensus answer to my question is "Yes". Sigh.
[1]http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
Bob (The Pedant) Morris
Well, educating us about this is a first step. It's certainly not the mainstream use:
Google searches for "resolve URI" and "resolve URL" return 4,700 and 3,500,000 pages. "dereference URI" and "dereference URL" return 800 and 1,300 pages.
--Michael
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Lee Database Programmer and Administrator Carolina Vegetation Survey http://cvs.bio.unc.edu/ michael.lee@unc.edu --------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Bob Morris morris.bob@gmail.com wrote:
Is it too pedantic to wish that people would not use "resolve" when they mean "dereference"? The terms are distinguished in RFC 3986[1]: "URI "resolution" is the process of determining an access mechanism and the appropriate parameters necessary to dereference a URI; this resolution may require several iterations. To use that access mechanism to perform an action on the URI's resource is to "dereference" the URI." [1]
I bet the concensus answer to my question is "Yes". Sigh.
[1]http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
Bob (The Pedant) Morris
-- Robert A. Morris Emeritus Professor of Computer Science UMASS-Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125-3390 Associate, Harvard University Herbaria email: morris.bob@gmail.com web: http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/ web: http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram http://www.cs.umb.edu/%7Eram phone (+1) 857 222 7992 (mobile) _______________________________________________ tdwg-content mailing list tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content
From now on I think we should adopt the correct usage as Bob suggests.
Use "dereferenced" when that is what we mean.
As a list, we are already pedantic about taxonomic terms and Codes.
- Pete
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Bob Morris morris.bob@gmail.com wrote:
Is it too pedantic to wish that people would not use "resolve" when they mean "dereference"? The terms are distinguished in RFC 3986[1]: "URI "resolution" is the process of determining an access mechanism and the appropriate parameters necessary to dereference a URI; this resolution may require several iterations. To use that access mechanism to perform an action on the URI's resource is to "dereference" the URI." [1]
I bet the concensus answer to my question is "Yes". Sigh.
[1]http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
Bob (The Pedant) Morris
-- Robert A. Morris Emeritus Professor of Computer Science UMASS-Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125-3390 Associate, Harvard University Herbaria email: morris.bob@gmail.com web: http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/ web: http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram phone (+1) 857 222 7992 (mobile) _______________________________________________ tdwg-content mailing list tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content
Thanks, Bob. I was unaware of the difference until now.
Such is the bane of our community (homonyms, synonyms, and misapplied terms).
I sigh in an analagous way everytime someone refers to a taxon name, when they are really referring to a taxon concept.
Rich
-----Original Message----- From: tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Bob Morris Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 2:51 AM To: tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org Subject: [tdwg-content] "resolution" of URIs usually used improperly
Is it too pedantic to wish that people would not use "resolve" when they mean "dereference"? The terms are distinguished in RFC 3986[1]: "URI "resolution" is the process of determining an access mechanism and the appropriate parameters necessary to dereference a URI; this resolution may require several iterations. To use that access mechanism to perform an action on the URI's resource is to "dereference" the URI." [1]
I bet the concensus answer to my question is "Yes". Sigh.
[1]http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
Bob (The Pedant) Morris
-- Robert A. Morris Emeritus Professor of Computer Science UMASS-Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125-3390 Associate, Harvard University Herbaria email: morris.bob@gmail.com web: http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/ web: http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram phone (+1) 857 222 7992 (mobile) _______________________________________________ tdwg-content mailing list tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content
Yes, too pedantic Bob. ;-) But really useful to be pointed out.
However, I think it really depends on the context you are using the terms (as is often the case). I was considering how I might reword any mention of resolution and dereferencing in my beginners guide to persistent identifiers in accordance with what you have pointed out, but I think changing "resolution" to "dereference" will just confuse people in a beginners guide (ie they are probably too novice to know the difference, or even care)
Kevin
-----Original Message----- From: tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Richard Pyle Sent: Friday, 15 October 2010 7:02 a.m. To: 'Bob Morris'; tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org Subject: Re: [tdwg-content] "resolution" of URIs usually used improperly
Thanks, Bob. I was unaware of the difference until now.
Such is the bane of our community (homonyms, synonyms, and misapplied terms).
I sigh in an analagous way everytime someone refers to a taxon name, when they are really referring to a taxon concept.
Rich
-----Original Message----- From: tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Bob Morris Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 2:51 AM To: tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org Subject: [tdwg-content] "resolution" of URIs usually used improperly
Is it too pedantic to wish that people would not use "resolve" when they mean "dereference"? The terms are distinguished in RFC 3986[1]: "URI "resolution" is the process of determining an access mechanism and the appropriate parameters necessary to dereference a URI; this resolution may require several iterations. To use that access mechanism to perform an action on the URI's resource is to "dereference" the URI." [1]
I bet the concensus answer to my question is "Yes". Sigh.
[1]http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
Bob (The Pedant) Morris
-- Robert A. Morris Emeritus Professor of Computer Science UMASS-Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125-3390 Associate, Harvard University Herbaria email: morris.bob@gmail.com web: http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/ web: http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram phone (+1) 857 222 7992 (mobile) _______________________________________________ tdwg-content mailing list tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content
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For those wishing to delve more into such subtleties, I can recommend this philosophical digression on the difference between 'sense' and 'reference' and the 'meaning' (pun intended of course) of it all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense_and_reference
In fact, I just heard this podcast that explains it all (sort of): http://philosophybites.com/2010/10/michael-dummett-on-frege.htm
Next up: A discussion of what is a "species"! (just kidding -- but I did find it amusing that experts in taxonomy wouldn't start by recognizing that there are multiple species concepts... and then start arguing about how to classify them instead of arguing which one is the right one ;-)
Bertram
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:51 AM, Bob Morris morris.bob@gmail.com wrote:
Is it too pedantic to wish that people would not use "resolve" when they mean "dereference"? The terms are distinguished in RFC 3986[1]: "URI "resolution" is the process of determining an access mechanism and the appropriate parameters necessary to dereference a URI; this resolution may require several iterations. To use that access mechanism to perform an action on the URI's resource is to "dereference" the URI." [1]
I bet the concensus answer to my question is "Yes". Sigh.
[1]http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
Bob (The Pedant) Morris
-- Robert A. Morris Emeritus Professor of Computer Science UMASS-Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125-3390 Associate, Harvard University Herbaria email: morris.bob@gmail.com web: http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/ web: http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram phone (+1) 857 222 7992 (mobile) _______________________________________________ tdwg-content mailing list tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content
Or, one could simply read http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3305#section-2.3 (subtitled "Confusion"). From now on, I intend to refer to rfc3305 as "The Frege RFC").
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Bertram Ludaescher ludaesch@ucdavis.edu wrote:
For those wishing to delve more into such subtleties, I can recommend this philosophical digression on the difference between 'sense' and 'reference' and the 'meaning' (pun intended of course) of it all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense_and_reference
In fact, I just heard this podcast that explains it all (sort of): http://philosophybites.com/2010/10/michael-dummett-on-frege.htm
Next up: A discussion of what is a "species"! (just kidding -- but I did find it amusing that experts in taxonomy wouldn't start by recognizing that there are multiple species concepts... and then start arguing about how to classify them instead of arguing which one is the right one ;-)
Bertram
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:51 AM, Bob Morris morris.bob@gmail.com wrote:
Is it too pedantic to wish that people would not use "resolve" when they mean "dereference"? The terms are distinguished in RFC 3986[1]: "URI "resolution" is the process of determining an access mechanism and the appropriate parameters necessary to dereference a URI; this resolution may require several iterations. To use that access mechanism to perform an action on the URI's resource is to "dereference" the URI." [1]
I bet the concensus answer to my question is "Yes". Sigh.
[1]http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
Bob (The Pedant) Morris
-- Robert A. Morris Emeritus Professor of Computer Science UMASS-Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125-3390 Associate, Harvard University Herbaria email: morris.bob@gmail.com web: http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/ web: http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram phone (+1) 857 222 7992 (mobile) _______________________________________________ tdwg-content mailing list tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content
Quoting "Bob Morris" morris.bob@gmail.com:
Or, one could simply read http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3305#section-2.3 (subtitled "Confusion"). From now on, I intend to refer to rfc3305 as "The Frege RFC").
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Bertram Ludaescher ludaesch@ucdavis.edu wrote:
For those wishing to delve more into such subtleties, I can recommend this philosophical digression on the difference between 'sense' and 'reference' and the 'meaning' (pun intended of course) of it all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense_and_reference
In fact, I just heard this podcast that explains it all (sort of): http://philosophybites.com/2010/10/michael-dummett-on-frege.htm
Next up: A discussion of what is a "species"! (just kidding -- but I did find it amusing that experts in taxonomy wouldn't start by recognizing that there are multiple species concepts... and then start arguing about how to classify them instead of arguing which one is the right one ;-)
Bertram
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:51 AM, Bob Morris morris.bob@gmail.com wrote:
Is it too pedantic to wish that people would not use "resolve" when they mean "dereference"? The terms are distinguished in RFC 3986[1]: "URI "resolution" is the process of determining an access mechanism and the appropriate parameters necessary to dereference a URI; this resolution may require several iterations. To use that access mechanism to perform an action on the URI's resource is to "dereference" the URI." [1]
I bet the concensus answer to my question is "Yes". Sigh.
[1]http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
Bob (The Pedant) Morris
-- Robert A. Morris Emeritus Professor of Computer Science UMASS-Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125-3390 Associate, Harvard University Herbaria email: morris.bob@gmail.com web: http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/ web: http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram phone (+1) 857 222 7992 (mobile) _______________________________________________ tdwg-content mailing list tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content
-- Robert A. Morris Emeritus Professor of Computer Science UMASS-Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125-3390 Associate, Harvard University Herbaria email: morris.bob@gmail.com web: http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/ web: http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram phone (+1) 857 222 7992 (mobile) _______________________________________________ tdwg-content mailing list tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content
participants (7)
-
Bertram Ludaescher -
Bob Morris -
Kevin Richards -
Mauri Åhlberg -
Michael Lee -
Peter DeVries -
Richard Pyle