[tdwg-guid] Permanent LSID Proxy

Richard Pyle deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
Mon Dec 3 09:59:33 CET 2007


O.K., so even if we all decide that lsid.tdwg.org is the HTTP proxy of
choice when no other option is available, doesn't it also make sense that
using the Authority part of LSID as the domain for the proxy? In that as
long as the LSID  survives, it is likely that the domain name embedded
within the LSID as the authority will simultaneously survive?

More specifically, does anyone believe that:

http://lsid.tdwg.org/urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:12345

is preferable to:

http://zoobank.org/urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:12345

????

I prefer the latter, because it gives the LSID issuer control over how the
proxy returns the metadata/data.

Rich

________________________________

	From: Kevin Richards [mailto:RichardsK at landcareresearch.co.nz] 
	Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:28 AM
	To: Chuck Miller; Richard Pyle; Roderic Page; RogerHyam
	Cc: tdwg-guid at lists.tdwg.org
	Subject: Re: [tdwg-guid] Permanent LSID Proxy
	
	
	I think this is the idea of "communities".  I.e. nothing is
guaranteed to be forever.  It relies on us as a community to keep it going
indefinitely.  So yes on the safe side, we could say "in the forseeable
future", but on the idealistic side we would say "indefinitely".  
	 
	So I would reccommend staying with tdwg.org, as this ties the
"domain" to a global community / an ideal / an aspiration, rather than to a
commercial / funding based organisation (which could, even more readily, be
terminated).
	 
	Any "infrastrutcture" will need to be housed somewhere and, I guess,
this will be up to the members of our community to chip in and provide the
services required at the time (as GBIF have done recently).
	 
	This probably all sounds a bit "idealistic", but I think ideals last
longer than organisations, and longer than any specific technology for that
matter (LSIDs, DNS, Internet, etc).
	 
	Kevin
	
	>>> "Chuck Miller" <Chuck.Miller at mobot.org> 1/12/2007 6:18 a.m. >>>
	
	How to turn LSIDs into a clickable link guaranteed to work forever?
	
	Rich's vision:
	http://<some proxy server>.org/?urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234
	
	This sounds to me like a question more about networking
infrastructure,
	than TDWG's charter about data exchange protocols and content
standards.
	I have always presumed that TDWG's standards would work using
whatever
	networking infrastructure was available to them - e.g. DNS, HTTP,
local
	provider servers, etc.  
	
	But, then lsid.tdwg.org was created--a server. Servers are
operational
	infrastructure.  I don't think TDWG has (yet) a "forever" funding
stream
	to enable operational infrastructure - ongoing operation of server
room,
	system administrator, network connections.  But, something like
	lsid.tdwg.org would serve a valuable purpose as Rich notes of
enabling
	LSIDs as a clickable link in publications or other online sources.
	
	Is there an existing international body that could operate a forever
	functioning LSID proxy (say like, proxy.lsid.org--which
unfortunately is
	already lost to Lindsay-Strathmore Irrigation District)?
	
	Maybe we will be forced to accept that there is no "forever" on the
	Internet and accept instead the "forseeable future".  I would think
for
	the forseeable future that GBIF would be a good place to put a new
LSID
	infrastructure like this since they are in the "operations center"
	business already and TDWG is by charter not. So, maybe the proxy
should
	be lsid.gbif.org?
	
	Chuck
	
	
	-----Original Message-----
	From: tdwg-guid-bounces at lists.tdwg.org
	[mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces at lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Richard Pyle
	Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:39 AM
	To: 'Roger Hyam'; 'Roderic Page'
	Cc: tdwg-guid at lists.tdwg.org
	Subject: [tdwg-guid] Embedding LSID links within Publications
	
	
	Thank you, Roger, for launching the next conversation I wanted to
start
	on
	this list (not to interrupt the previous conversation....but this
one is
	actually more pressing for me right now): 
	
	> Would it be better to take the approach we have with LSIDs 
	> where we always cite a proxied version?
	> 
	> What do other people do?
	
	As many of you already know, I'm planning to publish the description
of
	five
	new species of Chromis in Zootaxa on Jan 1 to:
	
	- launch ZooBank
	- Commemorate the 250th Anniversary of the start of Zoological
	Nomenclature
	- Create an "exemplar" cybertaxonomy publication
	
	I was talking this up at Bratislava, and things are still on track.
	Anyone
	who wants to know more about the project, let me know and I'll send
a
	document describing it in more detail.
	
	For now, I'll just provide a basic synopsis: This publication will
	include
	the first 5 zoological names proactively registered in ZooBank. As
such,
	there will be five ZooBank LSIDs, which I will want to include
within
	the
	publication itself (published in both paper version to comply with
ICZN
	Code
	rules; and as an online PDF version, which 99.9% of people will
actually
	read).  The plan is to have the PDF version marked up as much as
	possible,
	with taXMLit & TaxonX markup files, SDD files for the character
data,
	ZooBank LSIDs, Images deposited in MorphBank, links to GenBank
records
	for
	Barcode sequences, links to Museum specimen databases, links to BHL
for
	literature cited, etc., etc.
	
	So....this will be a document intended to show what could be
possible
	with
	all this TDWG stuff we've all be working on for all these years --
i.e.,
	how
	cybertaxonomy could/should be done in the age of the internet.
	
	Now, the PDF file itself will be rather simple -- a standard PDF
file as
	per
	normal Zootaxa practice -- except in this document, there will be
MANY
	embedded links that allow point-and-click access to all sorts of
online
	resources -- each of which will in some way showcase TDWG and
TDWG-like
	standards.
	
	A bunch of these links will be LSIDs (e.g., ZooBank LSIDs, plus
maybe
	others).  However, some of them may be other links (DOIs, URLs,
etc.).
	All
	HTTP and other self-resolving links will be pretty straightforward,
but
	I'm
	not sure yet how to embed links associated with the LSIDs.
	
	Obviously, LSIDs are not, by themselves, completely self-resolving
via
	most
	web browsers, so simply embedding the LSID as a link will not do the
	average
	user much good.  Thus, I'm now thinking of how I can make the LSIDs
	"clickable" from the PDF, to allow the cicker/user to be directed to
	something meangiful.  And that has caused me to think a lot about
HTTP
	proxies for LSIDs.
	
	Thus, assuming I have a ZooBank LSID that is
	urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234,
	how do I represent that as a "clickable" link?  One way to do this
would
	be
	to embed the LSID within the TDWG HTTP proxy:
	
	http://lsid.tdwg.org/?urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234
	
	However, what I'm shooting for is to have a document that can, as
best
	as
	possible, withstand the test of time, such that 250 years from now,
some
	or
	all of those embedded links will still work (I know, I know -- they
	won't --
	but humor me....) I'm a little neverous about simply assuming that
the
	TDWG
	LSID resolver will still be around in 250 years.  Besides, 99.9% of
	users
	will look at the returned RDF and scratch their heads.
	
	My gut feeling is that LSIDs have a better chance of surviving the
	long-term
	than URLs do.  And following this premise, the LSID
	"urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234" will only survive as long as the
	authority
	"zoobank.org" survives (in theory), so it seems to me a slightly
more
	appropriate solution would be to build a custom LSID resolver at
	zoobank.org, and thereby format the clickable link as:
	
	http://zoobank.org/?lsid=urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234
	
	Does this make sense to anyone?  Am I missing something fundamental
	here?
	Is there a better way to embed clickable links to LSIDs in a PDF
	document?
	
	I have a bunch of other questions to follow up with, but let's
tackle
	this
	one first.
	
	Many thanks!!
	
	Aloha,
	Rich
	
	Richard L. Pyle, PhD
	Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences
	  and Associate Zoologist in Ichthyology
	Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop Museum
	1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817
	Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252
	email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
	http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html
	
	
	
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