Thoughts
Bob Morris
morris.bob at GMAIL.COM
Sun Feb 12 23:08:36 CET 2006
I'm quite confused from the meeting reports whether there was some argument
accepted that LSID metadata in RDF should represent the \content/ of the
current concerns of TDWG, including TCS, DC, ABCD, SDD, and the impending
new groups, or merely \describe/ the databases against which answers are
rendered in those content standards. For example, if a taxon concept is
given an LSID, is the metadata returned expected to be a replacement for the
current XML constrained by TCS? RDF certainly can encode a taxon concept
and address the relations it encodes, but I'm unaware of applications of
LSID metadata of objects in a database where the datum is encoded, though in
many cases RDF could rationally make a claim to do so. I agree with
Sally:Where's the robust, widely accepted killer app?
I hate long email posts, and the present rules of the GUID wiki don't yet
permit comment, so I have posted something on the SDD Wiki. I'll move it
when the GUID wiki is open.
http://wiki.cs.umb.edu/twiki/bin/view/SDD/RDFConsideredHarmful
Depending on the resolutiuon to my cofusion expressed in the first
paragraph, I am somewhere been vigorously opposed and neutral on RDF, for
reasons in the above linked RDFConsideredHarmful.
I'm also amazed that a whole crew of volunteers seem to be persuaded (or
appointed) to drop everything they are doing and take on what may or may not
be a substantial piece of software engineering to in the next three months.
Either there were a lot of persuasive arguments that I couldn't see in what
I've been through so far in the report, or somewhere there is sitting an
LSID resolver package that just needs a little configuration. mod_LSID??? I
guess I'll learn which from Greg Riccardi. I sure hope it's the latter.
Bob
On 2/12/06, Roderic Page <r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> For my take on McCool's articles see
> http://iphylo.blogspot.com/2006/02/rob-mccool-on-rethinking-semantic-
> web.html
>
>
> Regards
>
> Rod
>
> On 11 Feb 2006, at 20:44, Bob Morris wrote:
>
> >
> > Rethinking the semantic Web. Part I
> > McCool, R.;
> > Internet Computing, IEEE
> > Volume 9, Issue 6, Nov.-Dec. 2005 Page(s):88, 86 - 87
> > Abstract:
> >
> > The semantic Web is a compelling vision, in which the World Wide Web
> > will include a notion of meaning in data and services. Intelligent
> > agents will exchange information and rules for how to interact with
> > that information, with or without human intervention; appointments
> > will be automatically scheduled; and automated agents will select and
> > invoke services. Information will be easy to find without depending
> > solely on keywords. In part one of this column, the author propose
> > several reasons that this vision hasn't yet been adopted despite
> > substantial research funding in the US and European Union (EU). These
> > reasons will provide the foundation for a new approach, which propose
> > in part two.
> >
> > McCool is one of the architects of a number of RDF and RDF related
> > systems. This doesn't bear very much on LSID vs. something else, but
> > it does argue that RDF is burdened by its weight and hasn't achieved
> > certain of its aims. A question arises about whether this has
> > implications for other applications that have ontological overtones,
> > including many of TDWGs.
> >
> > The second columm is in the January issue of the same journal.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/10/06, Sally Hinchcliffe < S.Hinchcliffe at kew.org> wrote:Hi Rod,
> >> Your comment facility is down or I would have added this to the blog
> >> ...
> >> I think that most of the talk re serving XML from LSIDs was by way of
> >> an upgrade path rather than as a final goal. As you say (rightly or
> >> wrongly) the community has put a lot of effort into XML schemas and
> >> it worried me (and others) that tying LSIDs to RDF might mean that
> >> the LSID baby got thrown out with the RDF bathwater as the community
> >> rejected it wholesale. But I was persuaded this wouldn't happen and
> >> now I face some scepticism here at Kew about the benefits of RDF so a
> >> killer app would be good...
> >>
> >> On the meeting itself, yes it was frustrating (and interesting and
> >> useful as well) and it struck me on my return that we might have got
> >> further had we had some professional (and neutral) facilitators - not
> >> to say that the chairs didn't do a good job getting us all to a
> >> decision in the end, but that we are all (me included) so parti pris
> >> and bound up in the subject that herding cats didn't even come close
> >> ... For the next meeting the decisions will be harder and more
> >> concrete and there will be a lot to decide. It might help having
> >> people who know how to facilitate useful debate and close off some of
> >> the blind alleys and circular pathways we have a tendency to wander
> >> into
> >> Sally
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > For those at the workshop, it was great to meet you and to discuss
> >> > GUIDs. I've posted a personal view on proceedings on one of my
> >> blogs:
> >> > http://iphylo.blogspot.com/2006/02/globally-unique-identifiers.html
> >> .
> >> > Comments are welcome.
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> >
> >> > Rod
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >> > ----------------------------------------
> >> > Professor Roderic D. M. Page
> >> > Editor, Systematic Biology
> >> > DEEB, IBLS
> >> > Graham Kerr Building
> >> > University of Glasgow
> >> > Glasgow G12 8QP
> >> > United Kingdom
> >> >
> >> > Phone:+44 141 330 4778
> >> > Fax:+44 141 330 2792
> >> > email:r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk
> >> > web: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html
> >> > reprints: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/pubs.html
> >> >
> >> > Subscribe to Systematic Biology through the Society of Systematic
> >> > Biologists Website:http://systematicbiology.org
> >> > Search for taxon names at
> >> http://darwin.zoology.gla.ac.uk/~rpage/portal/
> >> > Find out what we know about a species at http://ispecies.org
> >>
> >> *** Sally Hinchcliffe
> >> *** Computer section, Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew
> >> *** tel: +44 (0)20 8332 5708
> >> *** S.Hinchcliffe at rbgkew.org.uk
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------
> Professor Roderic D. M. Page
> Editor, Systematic Biology
> DEEB, IBLS
> Graham Kerr Building
> University of Glasgow
> Glasgow G12 8QP
> United Kingdom
>
> Phone: +44 141 330 4778
> Fax: +44 141 330 2792
> email: r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk
> web: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html
> reprints: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/pubs.html
>
> Subscribe to Systematic Biology through the Society of Systematic
> Biologists Website: http://systematicbiology.org
> Search for taxon names at http://darwin.zoology.gla.ac.uk/~rpage/portal/
> Find out what we know about a species at http://ispecies.org
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new
> Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'm quite confused from the meeting reports whether there
was some argument accepted that LSID metadata in RDF should represent the
\content/ of the current concerns of TDWG, including TCS, DC, ABCD, SDD, and
the impending new groups, or merely \describe/ the databases against which
answers are rendered in those content standards. For example, if a taxon
concept is given an LSID, is the metadata returned expected to be a replacement
for the current XML constrained by TCS? <span style=""> </span>RDF certainly can encode a taxon concept and
address the relations it encodes, but I'm unaware of applications of LSID
metadata of objects in a database where the datum is encoded, though in many
cases RDF could rationally make a claim to do so. I agree with Sally:Where's
the robust, widely accepted killer app? </p>
I hate long email posts, and the present rules of the GUID wiki don't yet permit comment, so I have posted something on the SDD Wiki. I'll move it when the GUID wiki is open. <a href="http://wiki.cs.umb.edu/twiki/bin/view/SDD/RDFConsideredHarmful">
http://wiki.cs.umb.edu/twiki/bin/view/SDD/RDFConsideredHarmful</a><br><br>Depending on the resolutiuon to my cofusion expressed in the first paragraph, I am somewhere been vigorously opposed and neutral on RDF, for reasons in the above linked RDFConsideredHarmful.
<br><br>I'm also amazed that a whole crew of volunteers seem to be persuaded (or appointed) to drop everything they are doing and take on what may or may not be a substantial piece of software engineering to in the next three months. Either there were a lot of persuasive arguments that I couldn't see in what I've been through so far in the report, or somewhere there is sitting an LSID resolver package that just needs a little configuration. mod_LSID??? I guess I'll learn which from Greg Riccardi. I sure hope it's the latter.
<br><br>Bob<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 2/12/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Roderic Page</b> <<a href="mailto:r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk">r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
For my take on McCool's articles see<br><a href="http://iphylo.blogspot.com/2006/02/rob-mccool-on-rethinking-semantic-">http://iphylo.blogspot.com/2006/02/rob-mccool-on-rethinking-semantic-</a><br>web.html<br><br><br>Regards
<br><br>Rod<br><br>On 11 Feb 2006, at 20:44, Bob Morris wrote:<br><br>><br>> Rethinking the semantic Web. Part I<br>> McCool, R.;<br>> Internet Computing, IEEE<br>> Volume 9, Issue 6, Nov.-Dec. 2005 Page(s):88, 86 - 87
<br>> Abstract:<br>><br>> The semantic Web is a compelling vision, in which the World Wide Web<br>> will include a notion of meaning in data and services. Intelligent<br>> agents will exchange information and rules for how to interact with
<br>> that information, with or without human intervention; appointments<br>> will be automatically scheduled; and automated agents will select and<br>> invoke services. Information will be easy to find without depending
<br>> solely on keywords. In part one of this column, the author propose<br>> several reasons that this vision hasn't yet been adopted despite<br>> substantial research funding in the US and European Union (EU). These
<br>> reasons will provide the foundation for a new approach, which propose<br>> in part two.<br>><br>> McCool is one of the architects of a number of RDF and RDF related<br>> systems. This doesn't bear very much on LSID vs. something else, but
<br>> it does argue that RDF is burdened by its weight and hasn't achieved<br>> certain of its aims. A question arises about whether this has<br>> implications for other applications that have ontological overtones,
<br>> including many of TDWGs.<br>><br>> The second columm is in the January issue of the same journal.<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> On 2/10/06, Sally Hinchcliffe < <a href="mailto:S.Hinchcliffe at kew.org">
S.Hinchcliffe at kew.org</a>> wrote:Hi Rod,<br>>> Your comment facility is down or I would have added this to the blog<br>>> ...<br>>> I think that most of the talk re serving XML from LSIDs was by way of
<br>>> an upgrade path rather than as a final goal. As you say (rightly or<br>>> wrongly) the community has put a lot of effort into XML schemas and<br>>> it worried me (and others) that tying LSIDs to RDF might mean that
<br>>> the LSID baby got thrown out with the RDF bathwater as the community<br>>> rejected it wholesale. But I was persuaded this wouldn't happen and<br>>> now I face some scepticism here at Kew about the benefits of RDF so a
<br>>> killer app would be good...<br>>><br>>> On the meeting itself, yes it was frustrating (and interesting and<br>>> useful as well) and it struck me on my return that we might have got<br>>> further had we had some professional (and neutral) facilitators - not
<br>>> to say that the chairs didn't do a good job getting us all to a<br>>> decision in the end, but that we are all (me included) so parti pris<br>>> and bound up in the subject that herding cats didn't even come close
<br>>> ... For the next meeting the decisions will be harder and more<br>>> concrete and there will be a lot to decide. It might help having<br>>> people who know how to facilitate useful debate and close off some of
<br>>> the blind alleys and circular pathways we have a tendency to wander<br>>> into<br>>> Sally<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> > For those at the workshop, it was great to meet you and to discuss
<br>>> > GUIDs. I've posted a personal view on proceedings on one of my<br>>> blogs:<br>>> > <a href="http://iphylo.blogspot.com/2006/02/globally-unique-identifiers.html">http://iphylo.blogspot.com/2006/02/globally-unique-identifiers.html
</a><br>>> .<br>>> > Comments are welcome.<br>>> ><br>>> > Regards<br>>> ><br>>> > Rod<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>>> --<br>>> > ----------------------------------------<br>>> > Professor Roderic D. M. Page<br>>> > Editor, Systematic Biology<br>>> > DEEB, IBLS<br>>> > Graham Kerr Building
<br>>> > University of Glasgow<br>>> > Glasgow G12 8QP<br>>> > United Kingdom<br>>> ><br>>> > Phone:+44 141 330 4778<br>>> > Fax:+44 141 330 2792<br>>> > email:
<a href="mailto:r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk">r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk</a><br>>> > web: <a href="http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html">http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html</a><br>>> > reprints: <a href="http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/pubs.html">
http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/pubs.html</a><br>>> ><br>>> > Subscribe to Systematic Biology through the Society of Systematic<br>>> > Biologists Website:<a href="http://systematicbiology.org">
http://systematicbiology.org</a><br>>> > Search for taxon names at<br>>> <a href="http://darwin.zoology.gla.ac.uk/~rpage/portal/">http://darwin.zoology.gla.ac.uk/~rpage/portal/</a><br>>> > Find out what we know about a species at
<a href="http://ispecies.org">http://ispecies.org</a><br>>><br>>> *** Sally Hinchcliffe<br>>> *** Computer section, Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew<br>>> *** tel: +44 (0)20 8332 5708<br>>> *** <a href="mailto:S.Hinchcliffe at rbgkew.org.uk">
S.Hinchcliffe at rbgkew.org.uk</a><br>>><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>----------------------------------------<br>Professor Roderic D. M. Page<br>Editor, Systematic Biology
<br>DEEB, IBLS<br>Graham Kerr Building<br>University of Glasgow<br>Glasgow G12 8QP<br>United Kingdom<br><br>Phone: +44 141 330 4778<br>Fax: +44 141 330 2792<br>email: <a href="mailto:r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk">r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk
</a><br>web: <a href="http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html">http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html</a><br>reprints: <a href="http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/pubs.html">http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/pubs.html
</a><br><br>Subscribe to Systematic Biology through the Society of Systematic<br>Biologists Website: <a href="http://systematicbiology.org">http://systematicbiology.org</a><br>Search for taxon names at <a href="http://darwin.zoology.gla.ac.uk/~rpage/portal/">
http://darwin.zoology.gla.ac.uk/~rpage/portal/</a><br>Find out what we know about a species at <a href="http://ispecies.org">http://ispecies.org</a><br><br><br><br><br>___________________________________________________________
<br>To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. <a href="http://uk.security.yahoo.com">http://uk.security.yahoo.com</a><br></blockquote></div><br>
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