Chuck, from the BioCASE side I can add the following: BioCASE ------- BioCASE is a European project and its also the name of the protocol (sometimes written as BioCASe). The BioCASE portal (software) is referred to simply as the BioCASE portal. The core of the BioCASE provider software (BPS) is called PyWrapper. This wrapper understands the BioCASE protocol, but also the Species2000/SPICE protocol. So you can use it to serve data in ABCD, SPICE/Species2000, DarwinCore, MCPDH, NaturalCollectionMetadata (NCD) or nearly any other XML standard with some limitations (unfortunately used by SDD). TAPIR ------ TAPIR refers only to the protocol. The primary goal of TAPIR is the unification of DiGIR and BioCASE, thus replacing them so that data providers and clients can access our data in the same way. There is a full TAPIR provider software available based on the PyWrapper which is called TAPIR PyWrapper. There is no TAPIR portal yet or any other client application for TAPIR. RDF ---- In many discussions currently RDF is considered a better way to share our data. To fully go the RDF way we would have to migrate the TDWG XML schema standards to some sort of RDF schema or ontology. There is still a performance problem with RDF if used with millions of records (equivalent to maybe hundreds of millions of rdf statements). So I dont see RDF being used right now in full production, but its surely a promising way to go. Personally I am a bit concerned we are about to split the community again - this time into TAPIR and RDF; but maybe thats how technological progress is made... regards, Markus -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] Im Auftrag von Dave Vieglais Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Januar 2006 16:03 An: Javier privat Cc: tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] FAQ page Much of the confusion has come about I guess because DiGIR 2 is actually a code name for a project that is building a data service application that supports pluggable protocols. There is no official name for that application, and there is no release (yet). So to try and help things a little: DiGIR 2 is a data server application, not a protocol. The application supports multiple protocols for accessing the data it serves including: * DiGIR 1.5 (i.e. the current version of DiGIR) * TAPIR (may not be a full implementation) * WFS (OGC Web Feature Service) * possibly SPARQL (an RDF query language) DiGIR 2 data server is being developed because we do not yet feel that there is a single unifying protocol for our community, and that new protocols may emerge and then different versions of the protocols will be developed. Having a single data service application that supports pluggable protocols will, we hope, significantly reduce the maintenance and configuration overhead of those interested in serving their data, since one the application is installed, we expect it to be a relatively trivial matter to add protocols or updates to existing protocols. We will provide more information about the project as updates become available. regards, Dave Vieglais Javier de la Torre said the following on 1/12/2006 8:23 AM:
Dear all,
We had today the GBIF ICT Expert Group meeting and a lot of people where making questions about TAPIR. Seems that there is confusion regarding names. People were asking why there is Digir 2 if we are all going to TAPIR and things like that. There were also questions regarding when things are gonna be ready, what can we expect from Digir2 and TAPIR pywrapper and what would be the reasons to migrate, how difficult is going to be to migrate, etc.
I was thinking of extending the FAQ page that Renato started in Madrid to answer all these questions, but I need some help specially from the Digir2 people.
-What is the status of Digir2? -Is it going to be difficult to update from Digir 1 to 2?
I will in any case start writing there and maybe you can then modify extend thins related to you.
Best regards,
Javi.
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org
Markus, I think we should be able to use RDF Schema and OWL to produce data exchange formats which look very similar (perhaps identical) to e.g. Darwin Core or individual sections of ABCD today, but which will give us a semantic framework that is not possible with XML Schema. Under those circumstances TAPIR should remain the preferred protocol for efficient searches for data objects via their properties/concepts. I personally see TAPIR and RDF (or at least OWL Lite) fitting very well together. Chuck is right that we need to produce a clear glossary/roadmap document that explains all of these things properly. I realise that it must all seem very disordered right now. I really believe though that we've managed to find a fairly smooth path to bring the DiGIR and BioCASe protocols together and to establish a key piece of the jigsaw that TDWG needs to put together. Donald --------------------------------------------------------------- Donald Hobern (dhobern@gbif.org) Programme Officer for Data Access and Database Interoperability Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat Universitetsparken 15, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark Tel: +45-35321483 Mobile: +45-28751483 Fax: +45-35321480 --------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of "Döring, Markus" Sent: 13 January 2006 11:27 To: Chuck.Miller@mobot.org; tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Cc: Berendsohn, Walter G. Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] FAQ page Chuck, from the BioCASE side I can add the following: BioCASE ------- BioCASE is a European project and its also the name of the protocol (sometimes written as BioCASe). The BioCASE portal (software) is referred to simply as the BioCASE portal. The core of the BioCASE provider software (BPS) is called PyWrapper. This wrapper understands the BioCASE protocol, but also the Species2000/SPICE protocol. So you can use it to serve data in ABCD, SPICE/Species2000, DarwinCore, MCPDH, NaturalCollectionMetadata (NCD) or nearly any other XML standard with some limitations (unfortunately used by SDD). TAPIR ------ TAPIR refers only to the protocol. The primary goal of TAPIR is the unification of DiGIR and BioCASE, thus replacing them so that data providers and clients can access our data in the same way. There is a full TAPIR provider software available based on the PyWrapper which is called TAPIR PyWrapper. There is no TAPIR portal yet or any other client application for TAPIR. RDF ---- In many discussions currently RDF is considered a better way to share our data. To fully go the RDF way we would have to migrate the TDWG XML schema standards to some sort of RDF schema or ontology. There is still a performance problem with RDF if used with millions of records (equivalent to maybe hundreds of millions of rdf statements). So I dont see RDF being used right now in full production, but its surely a promising way to go. Personally I am a bit concerned we are about to split the community again - this time into TAPIR and RDF; but maybe thats how technological progress is made... regards, Markus -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] Im Auftrag von Dave Vieglais Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Januar 2006 16:03 An: Javier privat Cc: tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] FAQ page Much of the confusion has come about I guess because DiGIR 2 is actually a code name for a project that is building a data service application that supports pluggable protocols. There is no official name for that application, and there is no release (yet). So to try and help things a little: DiGIR 2 is a data server application, not a protocol. The application supports multiple protocols for accessing the data it serves including: * DiGIR 1.5 (i.e. the current version of DiGIR) * TAPIR (may not be a full implementation) * WFS (OGC Web Feature Service) * possibly SPARQL (an RDF query language) DiGIR 2 data server is being developed because we do not yet feel that there is a single unifying protocol for our community, and that new protocols may emerge and then different versions of the protocols will be developed. Having a single data service application that supports pluggable protocols will, we hope, significantly reduce the maintenance and configuration overhead of those interested in serving their data, since one the application is installed, we expect it to be a relatively trivial matter to add protocols or updates to existing protocols. We will provide more information about the project as updates become available. regards, Dave Vieglais Javier de la Torre said the following on 1/12/2006 8:23 AM:
Dear all,
We had today the GBIF ICT Expert Group meeting and a lot of people where making questions about TAPIR. Seems that there is confusion regarding names. People were asking why there is Digir 2 if we are all going to TAPIR and things like that. There were also questions regarding when things are gonna be ready, what can we expect from Digir2 and TAPIR pywrapper and what would be the reasons to migrate, how difficult is going to be to migrate, etc.
I was thinking of extending the FAQ page that Renato started in Madrid to answer all these questions, but I need some help specially from the Digir2 people.
-What is the status of Digir2? -Is it going to be difficult to update from Digir 1 to 2?
I will in any case start writing there and maybe you can then modify extend thins related to you.
Best regards,
Javi.
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org _______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org
Hi Donald, So you say that you are going to provide a glosary+faq on all these things? I was considering adding this info to the TAPIR Faq page but I think it does not fit well there. Maybe it would be better to create something on the GBIF wiki and then link from the TAPIR faq page. I started writing some questions and answers, but most of them I think they fit outside the TAPIR one. I think we could start with the info provided by Chuck, Dave and Markus. Together with some diagrams we could maybe create a good "history", "here is where we are", "this is what you can expect", "this is how you can help" page. Or does this fit better under TDWG? Javi. On 13/01/2006, at 11:46, Donald Hobern wrote:
Markus,
I think we should be able to use RDF Schema and OWL to produce data exchange formats which look very similar (perhaps identical) to e.g. Darwin Core or individual sections of ABCD today, but which will give us a semantic framework that is not possible with XML Schema. Under those circumstances TAPIR should remain the preferred protocol for efficient searches for data objects via their properties/concepts. I personally see TAPIR and RDF (or at least OWL Lite) fitting very well together.
Chuck is right that we need to produce a clear glossary/roadmap document that explains all of these things properly. I realise that it must all seem very disordered right now. I really believe though that we've managed to find a fairly smooth path to bring the DiGIR and BioCASe protocols together and to establish a key piece of the jigsaw that TDWG needs to put together.
Donald
--------------------------------------------------------------- Donald Hobern (dhobern@gbif.org) Programme Officer for Data Access and Database Interoperability Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat Universitetsparken 15, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark Tel: +45-35321483 Mobile: +45-28751483 Fax: +45-35321480 ---------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of "Döring, Markus" Sent: 13 January 2006 11:27 To: Chuck.Miller@mobot.org; tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Cc: Berendsohn, Walter G. Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] FAQ page
Chuck, from the BioCASE side I can add the following:
BioCASE ------- BioCASE is a European project and its also the name of the protocol (sometimes written as BioCASe). The BioCASE portal (software) is referred to simply as the BioCASE portal. The core of the BioCASE provider software (BPS) is called PyWrapper. This wrapper understands the BioCASE protocol, but also the Species2000/ SPICE protocol. So you can use it to serve data in ABCD, SPICE/Species2000, DarwinCore, MCPDH, NaturalCollectionMetadata (NCD) or nearly any other XML standard with some limitations (unfortunately used by SDD).
TAPIR ------ TAPIR refers only to the protocol. The primary goal of TAPIR is the unification of DiGIR and BioCASE, thus replacing them so that data providers and clients can access our data in the same way. There is a full TAPIR provider software available based on the PyWrapper which is called TAPIR PyWrapper. There is no TAPIR portal yet or any other client application for TAPIR.
RDF ---- In many discussions currently RDF is considered a better way to share our data. To fully go the RDF way we would have to migrate the TDWG XML schema standards to some sort of RDF schema or ontology. There is still a performance problem with RDF if used with millions of records (equivalent to maybe hundreds of millions of rdf statements). So I dont see RDF being used right now in full production, but its surely a promising way to go.
Personally I am a bit concerned we are about to split the community again - this time into TAPIR and RDF; but maybe thats how technological progress is made...
regards, Markus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] Im Auftrag von Dave Vieglais Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Januar 2006 16:03 An: Javier privat Cc: tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] FAQ page
Much of the confusion has come about I guess because DiGIR 2 is actually a code name for a project that is building a data service application that supports pluggable protocols. There is no official name for that application, and there is no release (yet).
So to try and help things a little:
DiGIR 2 is a data server application, not a protocol. The application supports multiple protocols for accessing the data it serves including:
* DiGIR 1.5 (i.e. the current version of DiGIR) * TAPIR (may not be a full implementation) * WFS (OGC Web Feature Service) * possibly SPARQL (an RDF query language)
DiGIR 2 data server is being developed because we do not yet feel that there is a single unifying protocol for our community, and that new protocols may emerge and then different versions of the protocols will be developed. Having a single data service application that supports pluggable protocols will, we hope, significantly reduce the maintenance and configuration overhead of those interested in serving their data, since one the application is installed, we expect it to be a relatively trivial matter to add protocols or updates to existing protocols.
We will provide more information about the project as updates become available.
regards, Dave Vieglais
Javier de la Torre said the following on 1/12/2006 8:23 AM:
Dear all,
We had today the GBIF ICT Expert Group meeting and a lot of people where making questions about TAPIR. Seems that there is confusion regarding names. People were asking why there is Digir 2 if we are all going to TAPIR and things like that. There were also questions regarding when things are gonna be ready, what can we expect from Digir2 and TAPIR pywrapper and what would be the reasons to migrate, how difficult is going to be to migrate, etc.
I was thinking of extending the FAQ page that Renato started in Madrid to answer all these questions, but I need some help specially from the Digir2 people.
-What is the status of Digir2? -Is it going to be difficult to update from Digir 1 to 2?
I will in any case start writing there and maybe you can then modify extend thins related to you.
Best regards,
Javi.
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org
Sorry, Javier - I was NOT saying I was going to provide a glossary/FAQ - I'm too busy this month trying to find time to think about GUIDs. I just agree that we need one. If it's any help to anyone thinking about this, there are some terms at http://wiki.gbif.org/dadiwiki/wikka.php?wakka=CategoryGlossary and rather more at the end of: http://circa.gbif.net/Members/irc/gbif/dadi/library?l=/architecture/gbifbiod iversitydataarch/_EN_0.7_&a=d but these are all very out of date. Thanks, Donald --------------------------------------------------------------- Donald Hobern (dhobern@gbif.org) Programme Officer for Data Access and Database Interoperability Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat Universitetsparken 15, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark Tel: +45-35321483 Mobile: +45-28751483 Fax: +45-35321480 --------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Javier de la Torre [mailto:jatorre@gmail.com] Sent: 16 January 2006 16:44 To: Donald Hobern Cc: Markus Döring; Chuck.Miller@mobot.org; tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] FAQ page Hi Donald, So you say that you are going to provide a glosary+faq on all these things? I was considering adding this info to the TAPIR Faq page but I think it does not fit well there. Maybe it would be better to create something on the GBIF wiki and then link from the TAPIR faq page. I started writing some questions and answers, but most of them I think they fit outside the TAPIR one. I think we could start with the info provided by Chuck, Dave and Markus. Together with some diagrams we could maybe create a good "history", "here is where we are", "this is what you can expect", "this is how you can help" page. Or does this fit better under TDWG? Javi. On 13/01/2006, at 11:46, Donald Hobern wrote:
Markus,
I think we should be able to use RDF Schema and OWL to produce data exchange formats which look very similar (perhaps identical) to e.g. Darwin Core or individual sections of ABCD today, but which will give us a semantic framework that is not possible with XML Schema. Under those circumstances TAPIR should remain the preferred protocol for efficient searches for data objects via their properties/concepts. I personally see TAPIR and RDF (or at least OWL Lite) fitting very well together.
Chuck is right that we need to produce a clear glossary/roadmap document that explains all of these things properly. I realise that it must all seem very disordered right now. I really believe though that we've managed to find a fairly smooth path to bring the DiGIR and BioCASe protocols together and to establish a key piece of the jigsaw that TDWG needs to put together.
Donald
--------------------------------------------------------------- Donald Hobern (dhobern@gbif.org) Programme Officer for Data Access and Database Interoperability Global Biodiversity Information Facility Secretariat Universitetsparken 15, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark Tel: +45-35321483 Mobile: +45-28751483 Fax: +45-35321480 ---------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of "Döring, Markus" Sent: 13 January 2006 11:27 To: Chuck.Miller@mobot.org; tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Cc: Berendsohn, Walter G. Subject: Re: [tdwg-tapir] FAQ page
Chuck, from the BioCASE side I can add the following:
BioCASE ------- BioCASE is a European project and its also the name of the protocol (sometimes written as BioCASe). The BioCASE portal (software) is referred to simply as the BioCASE portal. The core of the BioCASE provider software (BPS) is called PyWrapper. This wrapper understands the BioCASE protocol, but also the Species2000/ SPICE protocol. So you can use it to serve data in ABCD, SPICE/Species2000, DarwinCore, MCPDH, NaturalCollectionMetadata (NCD) or nearly any other XML standard with some limitations (unfortunately used by SDD).
TAPIR ------ TAPIR refers only to the protocol. The primary goal of TAPIR is the unification of DiGIR and BioCASE, thus replacing them so that data providers and clients can access our data in the same way. There is a full TAPIR provider software available based on the PyWrapper which is called TAPIR PyWrapper. There is no TAPIR portal yet or any other client application for TAPIR.
RDF ---- In many discussions currently RDF is considered a better way to share our data. To fully go the RDF way we would have to migrate the TDWG XML schema standards to some sort of RDF schema or ontology. There is still a performance problem with RDF if used with millions of records (equivalent to maybe hundreds of millions of rdf statements). So I dont see RDF being used right now in full production, but its surely a promising way to go.
Personally I am a bit concerned we are about to split the community again - this time into TAPIR and RDF; but maybe thats how technological progress is made...
regards, Markus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tapir-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] Im Auftrag von Dave Vieglais Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Januar 2006 16:03 An: Javier privat Cc: tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org Betreff: Re: [tdwg-tapir] FAQ page
Much of the confusion has come about I guess because DiGIR 2 is actually a code name for a project that is building a data service application that supports pluggable protocols. There is no official name for that application, and there is no release (yet).
So to try and help things a little:
DiGIR 2 is a data server application, not a protocol. The application supports multiple protocols for accessing the data it serves including:
* DiGIR 1.5 (i.e. the current version of DiGIR) * TAPIR (may not be a full implementation) * WFS (OGC Web Feature Service) * possibly SPARQL (an RDF query language)
DiGIR 2 data server is being developed because we do not yet feel that there is a single unifying protocol for our community, and that new protocols may emerge and then different versions of the protocols will be developed. Having a single data service application that supports pluggable protocols will, we hope, significantly reduce the maintenance and configuration overhead of those interested in serving their data, since one the application is installed, we expect it to be a relatively trivial matter to add protocols or updates to existing protocols.
We will provide more information about the project as updates become available.
regards, Dave Vieglais
Javier de la Torre said the following on 1/12/2006 8:23 AM:
Dear all,
We had today the GBIF ICT Expert Group meeting and a lot of people where making questions about TAPIR. Seems that there is confusion regarding names. People were asking why there is Digir 2 if we are all going to TAPIR and things like that. There were also questions regarding when things are gonna be ready, what can we expect from Digir2 and TAPIR pywrapper and what would be the reasons to migrate, how difficult is going to be to migrate, etc.
I was thinking of extending the FAQ page that Renato started in Madrid to answer all these questions, but I need some help specially from the Digir2 people.
-What is the status of Digir2? -Is it going to be difficult to update from Digir 1 to 2?
I will in any case start writing there and maybe you can then modify extend thins related to you.
Best regards,
Javi.
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org
_______________________________________________ tdwg-tapir mailing list tdwg-tapir@lists.tdwg.org http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-tapir_lists.tdwg.org
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participants (3)
-
"Döring, Markus" -
Donald Hobern -
Javier de la Torre