Kevin,
I agree with you and Stan that the ontology is useful to all schemas. It seems to me that a "TDWG Ontology" is a totally new and different kind of thing than all the data exchange standards of the prior 10 years - DwC, SDD, TCS, etc. But, it is a very useful and important new kind of thing that should be part of the TDWG standards architecture. It challenges prior thinking about the nature of TDWG standards to grasp what standardizing on an ontology means. But, I think it's what is needed.
If TDWG standardized on one Ontology, then the vocabulary of all data exchange could be standardized on it. Then all TDWG standards could be revised over time to comply to that vocabulary standard, including DwC.
Stan said: " I'd like to hear the rationale for combining taxonomic name/concept with organism occurrence." An occurrence record generally has an organism's name associated with it in the real world. It is necessary and inevitable that vocabulary about organism names will be used in an occurrence data exchange schema like DwC. We have been stymied with this idea for years. A standard Ontology/vocabulary for the elements of name information needed to be associated with an occurrence, or a description, or a taxon concept would go a long way toward solving this duality. The "standard vocabulary" would not be standardized within DwC but it would be used in DwC.
Of course there is the problem of the hundreds of installations of DiGIR that use DwC "classic" and are no doubt not going to change for a long time. I think they just have to be accepted and worked around going forward. It's impractical to think of anything else. But, the past should not roadblock the future and we need to get moving toward that future.
Stan thinks that the Ontology is not appropriate for TDWG ratification. Why not? Change has to start somewhere. Yes, other standards would probably be in conflict if the Ontology were ratified, but I think we want to ultimately have consistency across all the standards and that means there has to be change going forward. I think a ratified TDWG Ontology would provide the foundation upon which to start building those changes.
Chuck
________________________________
From: tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Richards Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:53 AM To: Blum, Stan; Technical Architecture Group mailinglist; exec@tdwg.org Subject: Re: [tdwg-tag] darwin core terms inside tdwg ontology
I see the ontology as a model of ALL (hopefully, eventually all) the data in our domain of biodiversity informatics.
I would love to see it as a standard (at the least it might give it a bit more clout).
I agree that the ontology is useful to tie other TDWG schemas together, using it as a core/master model. I would be happy to see it used for ALL tasks within TDWG, but I understand the usefulnes of the more specific schemas/standards - horses for courses.
If I understand Stan here, I agree with him about the dubious use of DwC for representing Taxon Concepts/Names. As far as I know, it was really intended as a transfer standard for observation records?? It contains very limited taxon information! It really is not a overly difficult job to use a more suitable schema/ontology. I think the popularity of Darwin Core is due to its simplicity - and I wonder if what Roger is proposing will help with this - ie an XML implementation of the ontology as well as an RDF version. This will allow people to create very simple XML documents with reasonably simple/flat data, eg an xml document of TaxonName entities, with perhaps 6 or 7 or so key fields - even simpler than DwC. :-)
Kevin
________________________________
From: tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Blum, Stan [sblum@calacademy.org] Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2009 6:12 a.m. To: Technical Architecture Group mailing list; exec@tdwg.org Subject: Re: [tdwg-tag] darwin core terms inside tdwg ontology
From: tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org on behalf of John R. WIECZOREK Sent: Fri 2009-04-24 8:58 AM To: Roger Hyam Cc: Technical Architecture Group mailing list Subject: Re: [tdwg-tag] darwin core terms inside tdwg ontology
Anything I should do on the DwC side in anticipation of harmony?
http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#theterms
===========================================================
John,
At some point, all or (most) of the DarwinCore terms need to be added to the TDWG ontology.
But having said that, I also need to say that I'm uncomfortable with:
1) The current state of the TDWG ontology (primarily the naming conventions; lets just use terms names), and our understanding of the role it plays in TDWG and how it will be managed (entry of terms, integration of terms into the conceptual [is-a / has-a] relationships to other terms); and
2) the fact that the new DarwinCore straddles or overlaps the roles of an ontology and an application schema.
I understood the past TAG roadmaps to indicate that we were adopting an approach in which the TDWG Ontology would be a repository for data concepts that are present in (or implied by) TDWG standards; and that real data transmission would be accomplished with application schemas. The ontology itself would not be a standard, but would be a tool that helps integrate standards. I thought our standards would be created to function as application schemas or components of application schemas (as in the DwC and its extensions). I am now pretty confused. I'd like to hear the rationale for combining taxonomic name/concept with organism occurrence. I haven't gone over all the existing docs, so apologies if I've missed that, but I think it's confusing that a (new) DarwinCore record could be either a taxonomic name or an organism occurrence, or maybe something else. Maybe I'm too attached to object orientation and just don't GET the semantic web, but it feels to me like we are stepping into squishy ground.
Also, I the the DCMI maintenance procedures are also more appropriately applied to the ontology than a TDWG standard. The existing process for ratifying TDWG standards and the procedure in the DwC seem to be pretty explicitly in conflict; one can change the other cannot (without becoming another thing).
Is anyone else having these same trepidations? I don't think I've been as much of a Rip Van Winkle as Jim Croft, but I clearly missed some important shifts.
-Stan
________________________________
Please consider the environment before printing this email Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the emails. The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz