Fwd: Humboldt Task Group Meeting Wed 19 April 2023, 08:00 EST/12:00 UTC
Thank you so much Wesley, really appreciate it!
Maybe dummy was not the right word to use. The isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive is specific for Occurrence (I think), but Humboldt extension is extending Event (not Occurrence) in Darwin Core Archive. Darwin Core Archive follows star schema. 1 Event can be associated with multiple Occurrences and Humboldt extension extends the Event (not Occurrence). If isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive is true for certain Occurrences and false for the other Occurrences in an Event, then the Event has to be duplicated in order to have a Humboldt record with isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive = true and another with isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive = false, with corresponding Occurrences link to each Event extended by Humboldt with such values.
If my understanding is correct, then I am not sure if I understand the merit of having this term in the Humboldt Extension, when the examples in comment can be expressed in a simpler manner with existing Darwin Core terms. It is a different story in the new data model. However, people will not evaluate its usefulness based on the new data model in the public review, but in the context of Darwin Core.
Anyway, I will try to express my thoughts better in the next meeting, then you all can correct me if I am wrong :) Thank you all so much for discussing it in the meeting yesterday!
PS: Wesley, you are always essential to the team. Thank you for the email! Have a good trip!
Sincerely Ming
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Wesley M. Hochachka" wmh6@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [tdwg-humboldt] Humboldt Task Group Meeting Wed 19 April 2023, 08:00 EST/12:00 UTC Date: 19 April 2023 at 15:31:25 CEST To: Yi Ming Gan ymgan@naturalsciences.be, "Sica, Yanina" yanina.sica@yale.edu, Humboldt Core TG tdwg-humboldt@lists.tdwg.org
Hi Ming,
First, I still cannot sent e-mail messages to the listserv, so could either you or Yani forward this message to the entire group? Oh, and I have added Yani as a direct recipient so that I know that she will receive this message too.
Anyway, there was only a small group of us at today's meeting (Zach, Steve, and myself), and one of the things that we talked about was the message that you had sent earlier today. We are not sure what you meant when you write about the need to create a "dummy Event", and why one would need to create a dummy event. What I am speculating is that something in the documentation is leading you and I (and I assume Steve and Zach) to assume different things about the use of the term isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive.
It may not be efficient to use e-mail messages to ensure that all of us know understand the reason for what you wrote, so could you make certain to bring this up at the next meeting for discussion? Oh, and I'm afraid that I won't be able to attend the meeting next Wednesday, because I will be inside a winged tube flying west over the Atlantic. Zach and Steve should be able to explain my own questions about what you wrote, so I do not think that it is essential that I am at the meeting when this is discussed.
Oh...gotta run...I've got another meeting now!
Wesley
******************* Wesley Hochachka Senior Research Associate Cornell Lab of Ornithology ph. (607) 254-2484 *******************
________________________________ From: Yi Ming Gan ymgan@naturalsciences.be Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 05:09 To: Humboldt Core TG tdwg-humboldt@lists.tdwg.org Cc: Wesley M. Hochachka wmh6@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [tdwg-humboldt] Humboldt Task Group Meeting Wed 19 April 2023, 08:00 EST/12:00 UTC
Hi all,
I have a deadline today, so I can’t attend the meeting. However, I tried to put isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive into tables (Darwin Core) based on the examples in the comment, so here are my thoughts:
1. It looks much simpler without isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive (Darwin Core Archive, not the new Unified Model)
If isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive = true Use case without “isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive”
Occurrence
occurrenceID eventID taxonID lifeStage organismQuantity organismQuantityType occ_01 event_01 taxon_01 adult 1 individual occ_02 event_01 taxon_01 juvenile 2 individual occ_03 event_01 taxon_01
1 individual
eventID Total individual of taxon_01 event_01 4 = 1 adult + 2 juvenile + 1 no lifestage
If isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive = false use case without “isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive”
Occurrence
occurrenceID eventID taxonID lifeStage organismQuantity organismQuantityType occ_01 event_01 taxon_01 adult 1 individual occ_02 event_01 taxon_01 juvenile 2 individual occ_03 event_01 taxon_01
4 individual
eventID Total individual of taxon_01 event_01 7 = 1 adult + 2 juvenile + 4 no lifestage
2. Dummy Event needs to be created if isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive differs in each Taxon per sampling event (Darwin Core Archive, not the new Unified Model)
Multiple taxa per event with isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive
If this will lead to user creating dummy Event to use this term, I feel like people will not use it. I also think that then what is the point of using Event core this way?
Occurrence
occurrenceID eventID taxonID lifeStage organismQuantity organismQuantityType occ_01 event_01 taxon_01 adult 1 individual occ_02 event_01 taxon_01 juvenile 2 individual occ_03 event_01 taxon_01
4 individual occ_04 event_02 taxon_02
4 individual
Humboldt
eventID isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive Total individual of taxon event_01 true taxon_01 = 1 adult + 2 juvenile + 1 no lifestage event_02 false taxon_02 = 4 no lifeStage
Multiple taxa per event without isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive
Occurrence
occurrenceID eventID taxonID lifeStage organismQuantity organismQuantityType occ_01 event_01 taxon_01 adult 1 individual occ_02 event_01 taxon_01 juvenile 2 individual occ_03 event_01 taxon_01
1 individual occ_04 event_01 taxon_02
4 individual
eventID Total individual of taxon event_01
* taxon_01 = 1 adult + 2 juvenile + 1 no lifeStage * taxon_02 = 4 no lifeStage
Maybe I missed something but I am not sure what is the merit of having isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive in Darwin Core (not the new unified model)? I also put all the examples above in the slides in Humboldt google drive: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1lsCqdh_OeAFPgJYT9nqP82wqZgVNaDQpWpq7...
Thanks a lot!!
Sincerely Ming
On 19 Apr 2023, at 04:01, ys628 yanina.sica@yale.edu wrote:
Hi all,
I am very sorry for the short notice. I will not be able to join our meeting. I had to travel to Argentina last minute to help my family. My mom had an emergency but now she is recovering very well so there is nothing to worry about.
I will kindly ask you to discuss and review the following documents so we can finally submit the extension.
* Implementation report (please review and add yourself as an author herehttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1RFdSHoyzWCQk9qO6uup4xQjWOMzPyBb-A0mcjj98hbk/edit#heading=h.8dmewb9wxxbk) * List of terms (please review all eco: terms herehttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AbUUKDkgilbtHu9Dh_5V2dnOeQNbKBcRo4d7VEDyqOg/edit#gid=673949815, tab: complete_term_list_from_JW) * Additional document to better explain eco:isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive (please add content, examples, links to other terms, etc. to this https://docs.google.com/document/d/11fPW4JibRWUnrtTOZwDkAcxo5d-lwnATXyh3xmO65rs/edit document). * This will be added as an official document to the list of terms. The idea here, is that all the comments and relations of other terms will be better captured in a separate document instead of making a terribly long Comments section. * Humboldt Extension Documentation (please review herehttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1rX4m94rtZDR_8iIe3RvRnNYKDJcmSX3ii4S5hCznEA0/edit?usp=sharing) * This will not be an official document but will probably need to be linked in our presentation. Basically, I took our testing guide and removed all the parts related to the testing. We will need to update this document and polish it.
When to meet Wednesdays 8 am EST (see your time herehttps://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20230419T120000&p1=1440&p2=111&p3=37&p4=136&p5=51&p6=179&p7=64&p8=75&p9=224&p10=248&p11=152)
Where to meet Zoom link: https://yale.zoom.us/j/97318391101https://www.google.com/url?q=https://yale.zoom.us/j/97318391101&sa=D&source=calendar&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw131_ZV9o-84ivZDjGbSTBJ
Thank you and sorry for missing the meeting
All the best,
Yanina V. Sica, PhD Lead Data Team Map of Lifehttps://mol.org/ | Center for Biodiversity and Global Changehttps://bgc.yale.edu/ Yale University pronouns: she/her/hers If you are receiving this email outside of your working hours, I am not expecting you to read or respond. _______________________________________________ tdwg-humboldt mailing list tdwg-humboldt@lists.tdwg.orgmailto:tdwg-humboldt@lists.tdwg.org https://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-humboldt
Hi folks,
Sorry I haven't been in on this conversation. I was away in Copenhagen and without time for anything else. What is the state of this discussion?
Cheers,
John
On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 9:34 AM Yi Ming Gan ymgan@naturalsciences.be wrote:
Thank you so much Wesley, really appreciate it!
Maybe dummy was not the right word to use. The isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive is specific for Occurrence (I think), but Humboldt extension is extending Event (not Occurrence) in Darwin Core Archive. Darwin Core Archive follows star schema. 1 Event can be associated with multiple Occurrences and Humboldt extension extends the Event (not Occurrence). If isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive is true for certain Occurrences and false for the other Occurrences in an Event, then the Event has to be duplicated in order to have a Humboldt record with isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive = true and another with isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive = false, with corresponding Occurrences link to each Event extended by Humboldt with such values.
If my understanding is correct, then I am not sure if I understand the merit of having this term in the Humboldt Extension, when the examples in comment can be expressed in a simpler manner with existing Darwin Core terms. It is a different story in the new data model. However, people will not evaluate its usefulness based on the new data model in the public review, but in the context of Darwin Core.
Anyway, I will try to express my thoughts better in the next meeting, then you all can correct me if I am wrong :) Thank you all so much for discussing it in the meeting yesterday!
PS: Wesley, you are always essential to the team. Thank you for the email! Have a good trip!
Sincerely Ming
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *"Wesley M. Hochachka" wmh6@cornell.edu *Subject: **Re: [tdwg-humboldt] Humboldt Task Group Meeting Wed 19 April 2023, 08:00 EST/12:00 UTC* *Date: *19 April 2023 at 15:31:25 CEST *To: *Yi Ming Gan ymgan@naturalsciences.be, "Sica, Yanina" < yanina.sica@yale.edu>, Humboldt Core TG tdwg-humboldt@lists.tdwg.org
Hi Ming,
First, I still cannot sent e-mail messages to the listserv, so could either you or Yani forward this message to the entire group? Oh, and I have added Yani as a direct recipient so that I know that she will receive this message too.
Anyway, there was only a small group of us at today's meeting (Zach, Steve, and myself), and one of the things that we talked about was the message that you had sent earlier today. We are not sure what you meant when you write about the need to create a "dummy Event", and why one would need to create a dummy event. What I am speculating is that something in the documentation is leading you and I (and I assume Steve and Zach) to assume different things about the use of the term isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive.
It may not be efficient to use e-mail messages to ensure that all of us know understand the reason for what you wrote, so could you make certain to bring this up at the next meeting for discussion? Oh, and I'm afraid that I won't be able to attend the meeting next Wednesday, because I will be inside a winged tube flying west over the Atlantic. Zach and Steve should be able to explain my own questions about what you wrote, so I do not think that it is essential that I am at the meeting when this is discussed.
Oh...gotta run...I've got another meeting now!
Wesley
Wesley Hochachka Senior Research Associate Cornell Lab of Ornithology ph. (607) 254-2484
*From:* Yi Ming Gan ymgan@naturalsciences.be *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 05:09 *To:* Humboldt Core TG tdwg-humboldt@lists.tdwg.org *Cc:* Wesley M. Hochachka wmh6@cornell.edu *Subject:* Re: [tdwg-humboldt] Humboldt Task Group Meeting Wed 19 April 2023, 08:00 EST/12:00 UTC
Hi all,
I have a deadline today, so I can’t attend the meeting. However, I tried to put isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive into tables (Darwin Core) based on the examples in the comment, so here are my thoughts:
*1. It looks much simpler without isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive (Darwin Core Archive, not the new Unified Model)*
If isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive = true Use case without “isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive”
Occurrence
occurrenceID eventID taxonID lifeStage organismQuantity organismQuantityType occ_01 event_01 taxon_01 adult 1 individual occ_02 event_01 taxon_01 juvenile 2 individual occ_03 event_01 taxon_01
1 individual
eventID Total individual of taxon_01 event_01 4 = 1 adult + 2 juvenile + 1 no lifestage
If isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive = false use case without “isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive”
Occurrence
occurrenceID eventID taxonID lifeStage organismQuantity organismQuantityType occ_01 event_01 taxon_01 adult 1 individual occ_02 event_01 taxon_01 juvenile 2 individual occ_03 event_01 taxon_01
4 individual
eventID Total individual of taxon_01 event_01 7 = 1 adult + 2 juvenile + 4 no lifestage
*2. Dummy Event needs to be created if isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive differs in each Taxon per sampling event **(Darwin Core Archive, not the new Unified Model)*
*Multiple taxa per event with isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive*
If this will lead to user creating dummy Event to use this term, I feel like people will not use it. I also think that then what is the point of using Event core this way?
*Occurrence*
occurrenceID eventID taxonID lifeStage organismQuantity organismQuantityType occ_01 event_01 taxon_01 adult 1 individual occ_02 event_01 taxon_01 juvenile 2 individual occ_03 event_01 taxon_01
4 individual occ_04 event_02 taxon_02
4 individual
*Humboldt*
eventID isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive Total individual of taxon event_01 true taxon_01 = 1 adult + 2 juvenile + 1 no lifestage event_02 false taxon_02 = 4 no lifeStage
*Multiple taxa per event without isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive*
*Occurrence*
occurrenceID eventID taxonID lifeStage organismQuantity organismQuantityType occ_01 event_01 taxon_01 adult 1 individual occ_02 event_01 taxon_01 juvenile 2 individual occ_03 event_01 taxon_01
1 individual occ_04 event_01 taxon_02
4 individual
eventID Total individual of taxon event_01
- taxon_01 = 1 adult + 2 juvenile + 1 no lifeStage
- taxon_02 = 4 no lifeStage
Maybe I missed something but I am not sure what is the merit of having isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive in Darwin Core (not the new unified model)? I also put all the examples above in the slides in Humboldt google drive: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1lsCqdh_OeAFPgJYT9nqP82wqZgVNaDQpWpq7...
Thanks a lot!!
Sincerely Ming
On 19 Apr 2023, at 04:01, ys628 yanina.sica@yale.edu wrote:
Hi all,
I am very sorry for the short notice. I will not be able to join our meeting. I had to travel to Argentina last minute to help my family. My mom had an emergency but now she is recovering very well so there is nothing to worry about.
I will kindly ask you to discuss and review the following documents so we can finally submit the extension.
- Implementation report *(please review and add yourself as an author** here
- List of terms (*please review all eco: terms **here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AbUUKDkgilbtHu9Dh_5V2dnOeQNbKBcRo4d7VEDyqOg/edit#gid=673949815* *,* tab: complete_term_list_from_JW)
- Additional document to better explain eco:
*isLeastSpecificTargetCategoryQuantityInclusive* (*please add content, examples, links to other terms, etc. to** this https://docs.google.com/document/d/11fPW4JibRWUnrtTOZwDkAcxo5d-lwnATXyh3xmO65rs/edit* *document*). - This will be added as an official document to the list of terms. The idea here, is that all the comments and relations of other terms will be better captured in a separate document instead of making a terribly long Comments section.
- Humboldt Extension Documentation *(please review** here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rX4m94rtZDR_8iIe3RvRnNYKDJcmSX3ii4S5hCznEA0/edit?usp=sharing* *)* - This will not be an official document but will probably need to be linked in our presentation. Basically, I took our testing guide and removed all the parts related to the testing. We will need to update this document and polish it.
*When to meet* Wednesdays 8 am EST (see your time here https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20230419T120000&p1=1440&p2=111&p3=37&p4=136&p5=51&p6=179&p7=64&p8=75&p9=224&p10=248&p11=152 )
*Where to meet* Zoom link: https://yale.zoom.us/j/97318391101 https://www.google.com/url?q=https://yale.zoom.us/j/97318391101&sa=D&source=calendar&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw131_ZV9o-84ivZDjGbSTBJ
Thank you and sorry for missing the meeting
All the best,
Yanina V. Sica, PhD Lead Data Team Map of Life https://mol.org/ | Center for Biodiversity and Global Change https://bgc.yale.edu/ Yale University pronouns: she/her/hers *If you are receiving this email outside of your working hours, I am not expecting you to read or respond.* _______________________________________________ tdwg-humboldt mailing list tdwg-humboldt@lists.tdwg.org https://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-humboldt
tdwg-humboldt mailing list tdwg-humboldt@lists.tdwg.org https://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-humboldt
participants (2)
-
John Wieczorek -
Yi Ming Gan