From the clarification email that was sent out in response to the arguments re: using Individual instead of Material Sample, we indicated the utility of having distinct ID fields:

"...As was already pointed out, there is no restriction on specifying that an occurence is associated with more than one type, so any occurrence can have both an individualID and a materialSampleID."

This allows us to track distinct individuals, occurrences, and material samples in the same archive.  Yes, there are other ways this could be modelled but this proposal was constructed to be in line with the current standard.

John

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:37 PM, joel sachs <jsachs@csee.umbc.edu> wrote:
Hi John,

My apologies for the long delay - I wanted to finish reading the draft Darwin Core RDF guide, and recent discussion on it, before responding. I agree with the assertion made in the guide (section 2.6.1) that there's no useful way to use use Darwin Core xxxID terms in RDF. But even were this not the case, I struggle to understand the utility of the xxxID terms.

MaterialSampleID, as currently proposed, serves two purposes: it provides an identifier for the thing it gets slapped onto, and it also indicates that that thing is a MaterialSample. But this second purpose - indicating that the thing is a MaterialSample - can be done either by asserting it to be
rdf:type dwctype:MaterialSample
or by following the convention described in http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/guides/text/index.htm .

So all we really need is a mechanism for giving an identifier. Is there a reason not to use dc-elements:identifier for this purpose?


Best,
Joel.




On Tue, 11 Jun 2013, John Deck wrote:




On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 2:43 PM, joel sachs <jsachs@csee.umbc.edu> wrote:
      Hi Everyone,

      I was scared to read this thread, but it turned out to be fun.
      Despite the excellent clarification that occurred, I still have
      some questions. In relation to the proposal below (to introduce
      the terms MaterialSample, and MaterialSampleID):

      1. Given that the decision was made to put MaterialSample in
      the "dwctype" namespace, why is the definition still "The
      category of information pertaining to the physical results of a
      sampling event …"? Shouldn't the definition be "The physical
      results of a sampling event ..."?
      (Ramona pointed this out in a message that didn't get posted to
      the list, but which Rich responded to [1].)


yes, I agree with this...
 
      2. I believe Steve asked why there needs to be a
      MaterialSampleID, when none of the other dwctype terms
      (preservedSpecimen, etc.) have IDs. JohnD gave a sound defence
      of MaterialSampleID [2], but his reasoning seems to apply
      equally to preservedSpecimenID, DigitalStilImageID, etc. Did I
      miss the explanation of why MaterialSamples are so different
      from the other dwctype terms? Or is the idea that we will
      define, e.g.,

      dwctype:preservedSpecimen rdfs:subClassOf
      dwctype:MaterialSample

      so that preservedSpecimens will inherit MaterialSampleIDs ?


MaterialSample doesn't necessarily have to be an occurrence and there could
possibly be multiple occurrences in a sample (or vice versa).  Thus we need
the Identifier to track this (especially in the context of DwC represented
as a flat-file) 
 
      3. In RDF, all resources are identified by URI, and (should be)
      referenced by appropriate predicates (hasIndividual,
      hasOccurrence, etc.) So my understanding is that all the recent
      discussion about xxxIDs pertains only to non-RDF records. Is
      that correct?


Not necessarily.
 
      Many thanks for the clarification already provided, and for any
      yet to come -
      Joel.

      1.
      http://lists.tdwg.org/pipermail/tdwg-content/2013-May/003008.html
      2.
      http://lists.tdwg.org/pipermail/tdwg-content/2013-May/003006.html

      On Sat, 25 May 2013, John Deck wrote:


            Steve,

            Thanks for your comments.  Responding to both of
            your emails here.


            We’ve removed the class and now have just the
            MaterialSample dwctype and a materialSampleID
            property.
             dwctype:MaterialSample refines
             http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_0000747.
              Also, we’ve updated
            materialSampleID to be a new term in the dwc/terms
            namespace instead of referencing the MiXS
            namespace.  In
            our original proposal, we suggested using the MIxS
            RDF namespace for this property, however, the GSC
            did
            not make MIxS-as-RDF a standard, as decided
            recently at GSC15, so we’ve chosen not to use that
            term (by
            convention) and instead propose creating our own
            materialSampleID property in the dwc/terms
            namespace.   (A
            side note: the GSC is still very much interested in
            MIxS as RDF and we’ll continue to maintain and
            implement https://code.google.com/p/mixs-as-rdf/ in
            conjunction with the MIxS developers).


            Modification to proposed terms:


            Term Name: MaterialSample

            Identifier:
            http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/dwctype/MaterialSample

            Namespace: http:/rs.tdwg.org/dwctype/

            Label: Material Sample

            Definition: The category of information pertaining
            to the physical results of a sampling (or
            subsampling)
            event. In biological collections, the material
            sample is typically collected, and either preserved
            or
            destructively processed.

            Comment: For discussion see
            http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/wiki/DwCTypeVocabulary
            (there will be no
            further documentation here until the term is
            ratified)

            Type of Term:
            http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class

            Refines: http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_0000747

            Status: proposed

            Date Issued: 2013-03-28

            Date Modified: 2013-05-25

            Has Domain:

            Has Range:

            Refines:

            Version: MaterialSample-2013-05-25

            Replaces:

            IsReplaceBy:

            Class:

            ABCD 2.0.6: not in ABCD (someone please confirm or
            deny this)


            Term Name: materialSampleID

            Identifier:
            http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/MaterialSampleID

            Namespace: http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/

            Label: Material Sample ID

            Definition: An identifier for the MaterialSample
            (as opposed to a particular digital record of the
            material
            sample). In the absence of a persistent global
            unique identifier, construct one from a combination
            of
            identifiers in the record that will most closely
            make the materialSampleID globally unique.

            Comment: For discussion see
            http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/wiki/MaterialSample
            (this page will not
            exist until the term is ratified).

            Type of Term:
            http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#Property

            Refines: http://purl.org/dc/terms/identifier

            Status: proposed

            Date Issued: 2013-03-28

            Date Modified: 2013-05-25

            Has Domain:

            Has Range:

            Version: materialSampleID-2013-05-25

            Replaces:

            IsReplaceBy:

            Class: http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/Occurrence

            ABCD 2.0.6: not in ABCD (someone please confirm or
            deny this)


            John D. and John W.


            On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Steve Baskauf
            <steve.baskauf@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
                  Here is the second question.  The proposal
            proposes a new MaterialSample class
                  http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/MaterialSample
                  which is in the "main"
            (dwc:=http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/ ) namespace.  I
            guess my question is
                  why we need this class.  I can definitely see
            a rational for a new class defined as part of the
                  DwC type vocabulary (i.e.
            dwctype:MaterialSample).  It would be used to type
            resources that are
                  material samples.  But the class terms in the
            main (dwc:) namespace are used as a convenient
                  way to group DwC property terms that might
            reasonably be used with instances of that class. 
                  However, there really aren't any such terms. 

                  We already have a convention in which not
            every type vocabulary class term has a
            corresponding
                  class term in the main (dwc:) namespace. 
            There are dwctype:PreservedSpecimen,
                  dwctype:LivingSpecimen,
            dwctype:FossilSpecimen, dwctype:HumanObservation,
                  dwctype:MachineObservation, and
            dwctype:NomenclaturalChecklist, none of which have
            dwc:
                  namespace analogues.  So why does
            MaterialSample need a dwc: namespace analog? 

                  Steve

                  John Wieczorek wrote:
                        Dear all,

                        TDWG could see a lot of activity in
            2013 in anticipation of the meeting in Florence
                        in October. Much of the activity is
            related to enabling integration across multiple
                        parts of our domain. We have the
            Audubon Core under review for biodiversity-related
                        media and an impending RDF Guide to
            supplement the already extant Text and XML
                        Guides for Darwin Core.

                        This message is to bring your attention
            to another integrative initiative, to
                        introduce terms into Darwin Core that
            will form a nexus between Occurrences and the
                        interesting things that happen with
            physical materials that result from them, such
                        as, but not limited to, genetic
            sequencing. A series of meetings for a little over
                        the past year have inspired our
            colleagues in the Genomics Standards Consortium
                        (GSC) to propose to their constituency
            to align their terms with Darwin Core,
                        including adopting some of the Darwin
            Core terms in place of their own that have
                        the same meaning. Out of these
            discussions has come the realization that neither
                        community has terms to accommodate the
            concept of an identifiable (objectively, not
                        taxonomically), trackable material
            sample.  This message constitutes such a
                        proposal.

                        This proposal would have no impact on
            those publishing purely taxonomic data. It
                        would also have no impact on those
            publishing occurrence data unless they want to
                        increase their capacity to distinguish
            material samples from organisms more
                        rigorously than is now possible using
            only the dwc:preparations term.

                        The initial request for new terms can
            be found in the Darwin Core Issue tracker as
                       
            http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/issues/detail?id=167.
            Below I have elaborated
                        nad formalized the request into the
            three distinct terms under consideration,
                        initiating the 30 day minimum public
            review process to seek consensus on their
                        inclusion in the Darwin Core standard.
            Your job, should you choose to accept it, is
                        to discuss the merits or any perceived
            problems in the inclusion of these three
                        terms in Darwin Core.

                        Below I will give the proposed
            properties of three terms as they would appear in
                        the Darwin Core Quick Reference Guide,
            though these properties would be included in
                        the RDF of the normative form of the
            documentation.

                        A new MaterialSample class: This is for
            the purpose of organizing properties, just
                        as the existing classes (Occurrence,
            Event, Location, GeologicalContext,
                        Identification, Taxon, etc.) do,
            without having any terms declare this class as
                        their domain.

                        Term Name: MaterialSample
                        Identifier:
            http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/MaterialSample
                        Namespace: http:/rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms
                        Label: Material Sample
                        Definition: The category of information
            pertaining to the physical results of a
                        sampling (or subsampling) event. In
            biological collections, the material sample is
                        typically collected, and either
            preserved or destructively processed, with the
                        intention of being representative of a
            greater whole.
                        Comment: For discussion see
            http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/wiki/MaterialSample
                        (this page will not exist until the
            term is ratified).
                        Type of Term:
            http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class
                        Refines:
                        Status: proposed
                        Date Issued: 2013-03-28
                        Date Modified: 2013-04-08
                        Has Domain:
                        Has Range:
                        Version: MaterialSample-2013-03-28
                        Replaces:
                        IsReplaceBy:
                        Class:
                        ABCD 2.0.6: not in ABCD (someone please
            confirm or deny this)

                        A Darwin Core Type Vocabulary value for
            basisOfRecord is needed to represent this
                        new class of information. Luckily, a
            term already exists in the Ontology for
                        Biomedical Investigations
                       (http://www.ontobee.org/browser/rdf.php?o=OBI&iri=http://purl.obolibrary.o
            rg/obo/OBI_0000747).
                        We and the GSC both propose to reuse
            this class within Darwin Core as below, making
                        it the cross-ver point between the two
            domains.

                        Term Name: MaterialSample
                        Identifier:
            http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/MaterialSample
                        Namespace:
            http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_0000747
                        Label: material sample
                        Definition: A material entity that has
            the material sample role
                        Comment: For discussion see
                       
            http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/wiki/DwCTypeVocabulary
            (there will be no
                        further documentation here until the
            term is ratified)
                        Type of Term:
            http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class
                       
            Refines:http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_0100051
                        Status: recommended
                        Date Issued: 2013-03-28
                        Date Modified: 2013-03-28
                        Has Domain:
                        Has Range:
                        Version: MaterialSample-2013-03-28
                        Replaces:
                        IsReplaceBy:
                        Class:
                        ABCD 2.0.6: not in ABCD

                        In keeping with all other classes in
            Darwin Core, the Material Sample class would
                        have a corresponding identifier
            property. The Genomics Standards Consortium (GSC)
                        is in the process of proposing this
            term. If it is accepted, we propose to use it,
                        and its properties would be as below,
            otherwise, the properties would be the same,
                        but have the Darwin Core namespace and
            identifier URI.

                        Term Name: materialSampleID
                        Identifier:
            http://gensc.org/ns/mixs/materialSampleID
                        Namespace: http://gensc.org/ns/mixs
                        Label: Material Sample ID
                        Definition: An identifier for the
            MaterialSample (as opposed to a particular
                        digital record of the material sample).
            In the absence of a persistent global
                        unique identifier, construct one from a
            combination of identifiers in the record
                        that will most closely make the
            materialSampleID globally unique.
                        Comment: For discussion see
            http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/wiki/MaterialSample
                        (this page will not exist until the
            term is ratified).
                        Type of Term:
            http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#Property
                        Refines:
            http://purl.org/dc/terms/identifier
                        Status: proposed
                        Date Issued: 2013-03-28
                        Date Modified: 2013-04-08
                        Has Domain:
                        Has Range:
                        Version: materialSampleID-2013-03-28
                        Replaces:
                        IsReplaceBy:
                        Class:
            http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_0000747
                        ABCD 2.0.6: not in ABCD (someone please
            confirm or deny this)


            --
            Steven J. Baskauf, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer
            Vanderbilt University Dept. of Biological Sciences

            postal mail address:
            PMB 351634
            Nashville, TN  37235-1634,  U.S.A.

            delivery address:
            2125 Stevenson Center
            1161 21st Ave., S.
            Nashville, TN 37235

            office: 2128 Stevenson Center
            phone: (615) 343-4582,  fax: (615) 322-4942
            If you fax, please phone or email so that I will
            know to look for it.
            http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu

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            --
            John Deck
            (541) 321-0689




--
John Deck
(541) 321-0689




--
John Deck
(541) 321-0689