Hi all I agree on the good work and heads up. Small face to face workshops on the standards when it wss possible to organize them proofed indeed very useful and productive. In the executive we are aware of this. If you feel that there would be a need for such one on this topic a dress it to the executive so we can look into it. Similar to the small Darwin core extension meeting organized a couple of years ago in Belgium. With my best wishes Pat On 27 May 2016 05:51, "Shorthouse, David" davidpshorthouse@gmail.com wrote:
All,
I second, third, and fourth similar spirited support. John, you have inspired growth & have helped our community to lift ourselves up from drudgery. We've failed to see it, but collecting and depositing specimens is the highest form of academic and social responsibility.
What strikes me most from this dialogue is the implicit, unwritten word. Email signatures have included nicely structured, without-a-second-thought links to ORCID profiles. Can we please inspire to do the same for specimens as we've now very quickly done for ourselves? Failure to do so with its legacy of excuses is no longer an option.
David
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Lee Belbin leebelbin@gmail.com wrote:
Hi John et al,
Ditto (to Annie's comment) from me.
As most of you know, I have been standing back from TDWG for a few years now, but it has been hard to avoid interest in the development of TDWG's most significant standard. I have been aware of at least three
independent
suggestions that are relevant to my interests.
As from the beginning, the difficulty remains in getting wise heads
together
(face-to-face) and getting consensus on recommendations in a timely
manner.
The TDWG meetings are too busy without sufficient time to achieve
outcomes.
Teleconferencing is great in theory but hopeless in practice. The only alternative is to find time and $ for dedicated meetings adjacent to, or separate from the TDWG Conference. It has been done before to good
effect.
I raise this as I believe that the time for such a meeting is well and
truly
here.
Cheers
Lee
Lee Belbin Blatant Fabrications Pty Ltd Tasmania
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Quentin Groom quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be wrote:
I second Annie, this is a real problem in Biodiversity Informatics in general. Unless you can turn maintenance tasks into peer reviewed papers then you get little credit for it. Quentin
Dr. Quentin Groom (Botany and Information Technology)
Botanic Garden Meise Domein van Bouchout B-1860 Meise Belgium
ORCID: 0000-0002-0596-5376
Landline; +32 (0) 226 009 20 ext. 364 FAX: +32 (0) 226 009 45
E-mail: quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be Skype name: qgroom Website: www.botanicgarden.be
On 25 May 2016 at 17:57, John Wieczorek tuco@berkeley.edu wrote:
Thanks Annie. I don't plan to give up, it's just that I don't feel I
have
been doing it justice for a while now.
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Simpson, Annie asimpson@usgs.gov wrote:
Chiming in now, very briefly...
John, you are the DwC champion who has kept it moving forward in a comprehensible and useful way. The TDWG community is very grateful
for your
work on this and I personally hope you don't give up the good fight.
Annie Simpson, biologist & information scientist http://orcid.org/0000-0001-8338-5134 BISON project (http://bison.usgs.ornl.gov) Core Science Analytics, Synthesis, & Libraries Program U.S. Geological Survey, MS 302 12201 Sunrise Valley Drive Reston, Virginia 20192 ================= asimpson@usgs.gov 703.648.4281 desk
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:26 AM, John Wieczorek tuco@berkeley.edu wrote:
One primary idea behind the BCO is indeed as the proving ground you mention. The challenge is having consistent available resources to
do that
work. With BCO it could be a particular challenge, I think, since it
can
cover so much semantic space. I would love to be in a position to be
a
proper BCO caretaker, but I have not even been able to do a good job
with
Darwin Core as it is.
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 2:00 AM, Quentin Groom quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be wrote: > > Interesting! I had not come across Apple Core before. Isn't this > proving-ground role something that the Biological Collections
Ontology can
> also do? > I like the idea of a Darwin Core with different levels of adherence
to
> rules. I agree that strict enforcement of rules will inhibit the
flow of
> data, but in my own experience there are simple fields that I could
have
> easily completed in a standardized way, if only I could have found a > suitable recommendation to follow. Hierarchical vocabularies are > particularly useful here, because they have built in flexibility. > Regards > Quentin > > > > Dr. Quentin Groom > (Botany and Information Technology) > > Botanic Garden Meise > Domein van Bouchout > B-1860 Meise > Belgium > > ORCID: 0000-0002-0596-5376 > > Landline; +32 (0) 226 009 20 ext. 364 > FAX: +32 (0) 226 009 45 > > E-mail: quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be > Skype name: qgroom > Website: www.botanicgarden.be > > > On 25 May 2016 at 03:17, John Wieczorek tuco@berkeley.edu wrote: >> >> I think it is indeed worthwhile to have content standards to go
with
>> the term definitions. Applce Core (now under renewed development at >> https://github.com/tdwg/applecore) is a good example of this. >> >> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Chuck Miller >> Chuck.Miller@mobot.org wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> It’s interesting how long that text has been out there, and
without
>>> much comment. It seems to presume there is a binary situation:
tightly
>>> controlled vocabulary that is exclusive or loosely controlled
that is
>>> inclusive. Maybe it’s time now to consider something additional
in the
>>> middle. We know a lot more about how the Darwin Core standard is
being
>>> used, or at least have plenty of examples. With the addition of
use cases
>>> into the standards for terms, progress could be made on
use-case-based
>>> standard vocabulary that could reduce the “garbage in/garbage
out” problem
>>> that comes from being totally inclusive. >>> >>> >>> >>> TDWG standards in the 80s and 90s were a little more about >>> controlled vocabulary and reducing garbage than they have been in
the 00s
>>> and 10s. Maybe we should spend some time on that aspect of data
exchange
>>> again and use cases could be a method. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: tdwg-content [mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]
On
>>> Behalf Of John Wieczorek >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 2:48 PM >>> >>> >>> To: Quentin Groom >>> Cc: TDWG Content Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [tdwg-content] A proposal to improve Darwin Core for >>> invasive species data >>> >>> >>> >>> I would say that the primary factor driving the philosophy for
loose
>>> controlled vocabulary recommendations is a desire to promote the
stability
>>> of Darwin Core term definitions, because changes can be
disruptive. Section
>>> 1.4 on the Simple Darwin Core page >>> (http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/simple/index.htm) gives further
practical
>>> arguments for this stance. I have copied the relevant text here
for
>>> convenience: >>> >>> >>> >>> "There is a difference between having data in a field and
requiring
>>> that field to have a value from among a legal set of values. The
Darwin Core
>>> is simple in that it has minimal restrictions on the contents of
fields. The
>>> term comments give recommendations about the use of controlled
vocabularies
>>> and how to structure content wherever appropriate. Data
contributors are
>>> encouraged to follow these recommendations as well as possible.
You might
>>> argue that having no restrictions will promote "dirty" data (data
of low
>>> quality or dubious value). Consider the simple axiom "It's not
what you
>>> have, but what you do with it that matters." If data restrictions
were in
>>> place at the fundamental level, then a record having any
non-compliant data
>>> in any of its fields could not be shared via the standard. Not
only would
>>> there be a dearth of shared data in that case (or an unused
standard), but
>>> also there would be no way to use the standard to build shared
data cleaning
>>> tools to actually improve the situation, nor to use data services
to look up
>>> alternative representations (language translations, for example)
to serve a
>>> broader audience. The rest is up to how the records will be used
- in other
>>> words, it is up to applications to enforce further restrictions if >>> appropriate, and it is up to the stakeholders of those
applications to
>>> decide what the restrictions will be for the purpose the
application is
>>> trying to serve." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Quentin Groom >>> quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be wrote: >>> >>> Hi Paco, >>> >>> I'm glad to hear Plinian Core is active, I only recently
discovered
>>> it and think it is a good initiative. The species data I've seen
is in quite
>>> diverse and in unstandardised formats. It would be nice to see
some of the
>>> big providers using Plinian Core. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm not so worried about imposing limitations on users, because as >>> far as I can see Darwin Core only recommends vocabularies, it
doesn't
>>> enforce them. Having said that, it would be useful to know what
is meant by
>>> "Recommended best practice is to use a controlled vocabulary",
because if
>>> Darwin Core doesn't impose a vocabulary and there is no field to
specify
>>> which vocabulary you are using then it doesn't help
interoperability much.
>>> >>> >>> >>> I'm happy to also discuss off list. Invasiveness and impact are >>> difficult to standardize and so far I've chosen other fields that
I consider
>>> easier to gain consensus on. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Quentin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr. Quentin Groom >>> >>> (Botany and Information Technology) >>> >>> >>> >>> Botanic Garden Meise >>> >>> Domein van Bouchout >>> >>> B-1860 Meise >>> >>> Belgium >>> >>> >>> >>> ORCID: 0000-0002-0596-5376 >>> >>> >>> >>> Landline; +32 (0) 226 009 20 ext. 364 >>> >>> FAX: +32 (0) 226 009 45 >>> >>> >>> >>> E-mail: quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be >>> >>> Skype name: qgroom >>> >>> Website: www.botanicgarden.be >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 24 May 2016 at 19:08, Francisco Pando pando@gbif.es wrote: >>> >>> Quentin et al., >>> >>> >>> >>> Plinian Core is active and backed up by an international group
that
>>> seeks expansion. A session is planned in TDWG 2016 about it
within the
>>> Species Information Interest Group slot. >>> >>> >>> >>> "Invasiveness" is a section within the Plinian Core schema: >>>
https://github.com/PlinianCore/Documentation/wiki/InvasivenessClass
>>> >>> It is much based on the GISIN schema. This can be revisited, >>> updated and harmonized with current initiatives, some mentioned
in this
>>> thread. Quentin, we may do a bit of exchange of-list >>> >>> >>> >>> Whereas shared vocabularies bring plenty of good things , I share >>> Chuck’s concerns about imposing some unwanted limitations for
some potential
>>> users of the schema. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> >>> Paco >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Francisco Pando >>> >>> >>> >>> Investigador >>> >>> Real Jardín Botánico - CSIC >>> >>> Plaza de Murillo, 2 >>> >>> 28014 Madrid, Spain >>> >>> Tel.+34 91 420 3017 x 172 >>> >>> >>> >>> From: tdwg-content [mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]
On
>>> Behalf Of Quentin Groom >>> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 10:10 PM >>> To: Chuck Miller >>> >>> >>> Cc: TDWG Content Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [tdwg-content] A proposal to improve Darwin Core for >>> invasive species data >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Chuck, >>> >>> thanks for your point. The use cases I'm thinking of are >>> conservation red-listing; horizon-scanning for potential new
invasives;
>>> early warning of new aliens; impact assessment and invasion
monitoring. We
>>> have recently be discussing the possibility of automating all of
these
>>> process so that they can be repeated regularly, or as soon as new
data
>>> becomes available. Obviously, for this we need observations, but
we also
>>> need check-lists to tell us what is considered native or alien,
present or
>>> extinct. >>> >>> I know more about invasive species research than red-listing, but
I
>>> am aware that the current rate of red-listing is so slow that
most things
>>> will become extinct before they are assessed. Given that the IUCN
criteria
>>> are so clear, it should be possible to automate the whole process
using
>>> GBIF. The only limitation with then be mobilizing the
observations.
>>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Quentin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr. Quentin Groom >>> >>> (Botany and Information Technology) >>> >>> >>> >>> Botanic Garden Meise >>> >>> Domein van Bouchout >>> >>> B-1860 Meise >>> >>> Belgium >>> >>> >>> >>> ORCID: 0000-0002-0596-5376 >>> >>> >>> >>> Landline; +32 (0) 226 009 20 ext. 364 >>> >>> FAX: +32 (0) 226 009 45 >>> >>> >>> >>> E-mail: quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be >>> >>> Skype name: qgroom >>> >>> Website: www.botanicgarden.be >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 23 May 2016 at 21:10, Chuck Miller Chuck.Miller@mobot.org >>> wrote: >>> >>> Quentin, >>> >>> I think in addition to defining the community that needs the new >>> Origin term, you also need to define the use cases to which the
proposed
>>> controlled vocabularies for establishmentMeans and
occurenceStatus apply.
>>> Darwin Core is used in multiple ways. I think there may be use
cases for
>>> these terms that don’t match the invasive species use cases. One
controlled
>>> vocabulary may not work for all Darwin Core users. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> >>> >>> Chuck Miller | VP-IT & CIO | Missouri Botanical Garden >>> >>> 4344 Shaw Boulevard | Saint Louis, MO 63110 | Phone 314-577-9419 >>> >>> From: tdwg-content [mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]
On
>>> Behalf Of John Wieczorek >>> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:36 PM >>> To: Quentin Groom >>> Cc: TDWG Content Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [tdwg-content] A proposal to improve Darwin Core for >>> invasive species data >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Quentin, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you for your effort in putting forth these welll thought out >>> proposals. At various times I have heard discussions on the
inadequecy of
>>> establishmentMeans. Your work encapsulates the problem well. >>> >>> One of the things that helps when proposing to add a Darwin Core >>> term is demonstrating that there is a community that needs it.
Can you tell
>>> us who has a demonstrated need to share this information? Anyone
out there
>>> who has this interest is also welcome to share that here to
provide evidence
>>> of demand from more than one group, project or individual. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 3:23 PM, Quentin Groom >>> quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be wrote: >>> >>> I've been working on a proposal to improve Darwin Core for use
with
>>> invasive species data. >>> >>> >>> >>> The proposal is detailed on GitHub at >>>
https://github.com/qgroom/ias-dwc-proposal/blob/master/proposal.md.
>>> >>> >>> >>> The proposal is for a new term "origin" and suggested vocabularies >>> for establishmentMeans and occurrenceStatus. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'd welcome your feedback on the proposal. >>> >>> >>> >>> From my perspective it provides some needed clarity on the >>> establishmentMeans and occurrenceStatus fields, but also adds the
origin
>>> that is needed for invasive species research and for conservation >>> assessments. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm not sure of the best way to discuss this, but if you have >>> concrete proposals for changes you might raise them as issues on
GitHub, as
>>> well as mentioning them here. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Quentin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr. Quentin Groom >>> >>> (Botany and Information Technology) >>> >>> >>> >>> Botanic Garden Meise >>> >>> Domein van Bouchout >>> >>> B-1860 Meise >>> >>> Belgium >>> >>> >>> >>> ORCID: 0000-0002-0596-5376 >>> >>> >>> >>> Landline; +32 (0) 226 009 20 ext. 364 >>> >>> FAX: +32 (0) 226 009 45 >>> >>> >>> >>> E-mail: quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be >>> >>> Skype name: qgroom >>> >>> Website: www.botanicgarden.be >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tdwg-content mailing list >>> tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org >>> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tdwg-content mailing list >>> tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org >>> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tdwg-content mailing list >>> tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org >>> http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content >>> >>> >> >> >
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