Hi Rich,
The devil is in the expected use cases which I realized when I started to create useful queries.
In theory, you could have the occurrence record marked up with only an individual ID, no asserted identification.
Then in a separate file, map those ID's to species concepts.
Merge those in a knowledge base and you can run useful queries.
Look at this page: http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/index.html
or this http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/fbdc4c11-25d4-4f47-91b8-99c649b9f0b9.html
Think about how many people would find these usable if they had no species or classification attached to them.
How would you know what to click on?
You also want to be able to make statements about how this individual relates to other individuals and other species.
Populations and colonies relate in different ways.
You will find that records marked up with identifiers where one instance is an individual organism and the next record is a colony will give you very strange results.
For instance a colony at any given time has individuals of different sexes and ages. An individual at any given time "usually" has one sex classification and one age.
There will be cases where you have a fungus that spans three counties. Different people will assume that observations of that same individual in three counties are different.
If I thought what you are proposing would work I would use it for some mosquito collections consisting of 10,000 individuals but treating that record as the same kind of thing as a record of one mosquito will cause problems.
I think it is best to create a separate but linked entity to represent things liks a population or colony and keep those kinds of things represented as different kinds of things.
There should be some way to relate a population of mosquitoes to both a species concept and individuals that exist within that population.
Respectfully,
- Pete
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Richard Pyle deepreef@bishopmuseum.orgwrote:
I’m glad to see this conversation re-vitalized, as we (Rob Whitton & I) have been thinking a lot about this in our recent discussions concerning BiSciCol, GNUB, etc. I’m on coffee break from virtual attendance at a conference right now, so no time to elaborate, except I think it would be dangerous to accommodate an occurrence as a “species” (or any taxon concept) at a place/time. I know there are plenty of data that effectively are represented as Taxon-at-Event (i.e., occurrence of a taxon at a place and time). However, I think these should all be framed as “Individual-at-Event”, even if “Individual” is nothing more than a GUID to which Taxon identifications can be linked.
I think the hardest part will be to define the allowable scope of “Individual”. In my mind, it should at least span from single organism to multiple organisms up to colony and population; and can be circumscribed by any taxon concept (including “Life”). I have been re-thinking whether “part” should be treated as a separate individual. I used to think yes, but lately I’ve been thinking no.
Aloha,
Rich
*From:* tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto: tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] *On Behalf Of *Peter DeVries *Sent:* Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:24 AM *To:* Nico Cellinese *Cc:* tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org List; Paul Murray *Subject:* Re: [tdwg-content] DwC Occurrence [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Hi Nico,
Wouldn't the individual be asserted to be an instance of a species "concept"
For instance:
The species concept http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ses/ICmLC#Species
An individual of that species concept http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ses/ICmLC#Individual
An occurrence that has been asserted to be an occurrence of that species http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9#Occurre...
Which is documented by this page http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9.html
Relationships between these entities can be browsed via the Knowledge Base view.
< http://lsd.taxonconcept.org/describe/?url=http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f5...
bit.ly http://bit.ly/jgRUxv
- Note that links on the HTML page will also take you to the views of the
different entities in the Knowledge Base.
Also note that someone else could assert that the individual butterfly is actually an instance of a different species concept. One could simply replace these assertions with their own in a separate mapping file, or
with a different predicate. Note the hypothetical links below don't work.
The individual http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9#Individ...
< http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9#Individ... bioimages:individualHasStevesSpeciesConcept < http://lod.bioimages.org/ses/123123#Species%3E
- We might miss some species occurrence records when we do this, so it
would be best to avoid creating a number of basically duplicate concepts especially if they not the same "kind" of concept.
For instance those that are linked to a specific name or classification hierarchy.
Respectfully,
- Pete
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:10 AM, Nico Cellinese ncellinese@flmnh.ufl.edu wrote:
I personally like this nicely refined suggestion but to be honest, I can also live with the others previously made. What I don't seem to be able to digest is the notion that same individual will later be equaled by some to a species. That assertion is hard to swallow.
Nico
On May 31, 2011, at 3:44 AM, Paul Murray wrote:
- An Occurrence is a combination of an Individual and an Event.*
- An Occurrence is a coupling of an Individual and an Event.*
- An Occurrence is a pairing of an Individual and an Event.*
How about:
An Occurrence is the *reification* of an individual's involvement in (entaglement with? presence at? relationship to?) an event. It reifies an "Event involvesIndividual Individual" fact.
The need for this construct is that we often need to say a number of additional things about an individual's involvement with (presence at) an event beyond simply assertin that there is some relationship. We need to say what tokens that individual left, what role that individual had (Predator? Prey? Parasite?), perhaps temporal or other limits of that particular individual at the event. Occurrence is the object to which these facts may be attached. An individual might meaningfully have more than one occurrence at an event - particularly in cases where events are part-of larger events, or where an individual somehow has multiple roles (hyenas chased away from their kill by a lion - or is it the other way around?).
To put it another way: "reification" = "tuple" = "association table" = "pulling a property out into an object". More or less.
To put it another another way, an Occurence object stands in relation to an event and an individual much as a TaxonRelationship object stands in relation to the two taxa it mentions. You *could* simply model taxonomy with a "hasSubtaxon" predicate, but we usually need to say a great deal more about taxonomic relationships than that.
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Pete DeVries Department of Entomology University of Wisconsin - Madison 445 Russell Laboratories 1630 Linden Drive Madison, WI 53706 Email: pdevries@wisc.edu TaxonConcept http://www.taxonconcept.org/ & GeoSpecieshttp://about.geospecies.org/ Knowledge Bases A Semantic Web, Linked Open Data http://linkeddata.org/ Project