On Jul 2, 2012, at 11:01 PM, "Paul J. Morris" <
mole@morris.net> wrote:
> Chuck,
>
> Look again at the AppleCore guidance on codes and numbers
https://code.google.com/p/applecore/wiki/CodesAndNumbers I strongly suspect that your sense of the institution is the entity identified by the herbarium acronym, for which collectionCode and collectionID apply under the AppleCore guidance, rather than the larger entity (e.g. university, museum) of which the named herbarium is a part.
>
> -Paul
>
> On Tue, 3 Jul 2012 03:35:54 +0000
> Chuck Miller <
Chuck.Miller@mobot.org> wrote:
>
>> Actually, my question to John W was about originalInstitutionID (if
>> that were the way to do it) not originalCollectionID and whether
>> there were a way to distinguish two institutionIDs for the same
>> specimen. But I gather, so far, the answer is that there is not.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 2, 2012, at 9:25 PM, "Bob Morris" <
morris.bob@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So, if a proposal were made to add a term, say
>>> "originalCollectionID", whose value is the collectionID of the
>>> collection from which the duplicate set was distributed, what
>>> questions---especially what scientific questions---would that ID
>>> answer besides "what is the collection from which the duplicate set
>>> was distributed?"
>>>
>>> Just asking....
>>>
>>> Bob Morris
>>>
>>> p.s. I guess I could think of some questions in the domain of the
>>> history of science, but I suspect DwC has lots of shortcomings for
>>> that domain anyway....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Paul J. Morris <
mole@morris.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 23:05:38 +0000
>>>> Chuck Miller <
Chuck.Miller@mobot.org> wrote:
>>>>> In the botanical world of duplicate specimens and gifting of
>>>>> specimens to a specialist in exchange for a determination, a plant
>>>>> specimen can have multiple institutions actually annotated on it
>>>>> and therefore multiple institutionIDs potentially associated with
>>>>> it. Does DwC have a way to distinguish multiple institutionIDs
>>>>> for a specimen - e.g. original collecting institution and current
>>>>> repository institution?
>>>>
>>>> Many bits are there, some bits aren't. The occuranceID is a GUID
>>>> for the duplicate set (except untill we get the duplicate sets
>>>> sorted out, everyone is going to be serving distinct occuranceIDs
>>>> for each sheet in the set. There isn't a property to hold GUIDs
>>>> for specimens, so we are left with the hopefully unique DarwinCore
>>>> doublet of collectionID/collectionCode and catalogNumber (under
>>>> the AppleCore guidance, we can ignore
>>>> institutionCode/institutionID for the most part in botany, as
>>>> herbarium acronyms are placed in collectionCode and GUIDs for
>>>> herbaria are placed in collectionID). Available for trying to
>>>> cluster duplicates are recordedBy for the collector name and
>>>> recordNumber for the collector's number. Once we do have sets
>>>> of duplicates linked with occurranceID, we don't, as you point
>>>> out, have any way to determine which collectionID was the
>>>> collection from which the duplicate set was distributed.
>>>>
>>>> -Paul
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 2, 2012, at 4:44 PM, "John Wieczorek" <
tuco@berkeley.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Aaike,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The institutionID is definitely meant to be a GUID, and as such
>>>>>> would not likely be of much use within an institutional database,
>>>>>> where the institutionID would likely be the same for every
>>>>>> record. Instead, it is meant to identify an institution in a
>>>>>> persistent, hopefully resolvable way, where resolution would be
>>>>>> able to give more information about the identified institution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Identifiers for institutions do exist. An example is
>>>>>> urn:lsid:biocol.org:col:34777, the institutionID in the
>>>>>> Biodiversity Collections Index for the University of California
>>>>>> Berkeley Museum of Vertebrate Zoology (MVZ), within which there
>>>>>> are several collections, each with its distinct collectionID,
>>>>>> such as urn:lsid:biocol.org:col:34818 for the Herpetology
>>>>>> Collection at the MVZ.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The IDs are useful to provide the possibility of a link to other
>>>>>> information that may not be shared in original record. They are
>>>>>> also useful to distinguish the institutions and collections from
>>>>>> each other. For example, MVZ is the acronym used for the
>>>>>> Institution as a whole where the collections are housed, and it
>>>>>> is also used independently by each of the collections when
>>>>>> specimens are cited in literature. In other words, the
>>>>>> institutionCode (MVZ) is not distinct from the collectionCodes
>>>>>> (MVZ), and the collectionCodes within the institution are not
>>>>>> unique (all MVZ). The IDs are meant to overcome this and other
>>>>>> problems of reference and uniqueness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope that helps,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Aaike De Wever
>>>>>> <
aaike.dewever@naturalsciences.be> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While composing a template and recommendations for the Darwin
>>>>>>> Core fields to supply for the BioFresh project
>>>>>>> <
http://www.freshwaterbiodiversity.eu/>, similar to what Peter
>>>>>>> Desmet did for herbaria in Apple Core
>>>>>>> <
http://code.google.com/p/applecore/>, I came across a number of
>>>>>>> terms which I haven't yet completely understood and hope to get
>>>>>>> some feedback on from this community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two of these terms are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> InstitutionCode - InstitutionID
>>>>>>>
http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/institutionCode -
>>>>>>>
http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/institutionID
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The name (or acronym) in use by the institution having custody
>>>>>>> of the object(s) or information referred to in the record. / An
>>>>>>> identifier for the institution having custody of the object(s)
>>>>>>> or information referred to in the record.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess that the latter term is supposed to be a DOI/GUID for
>>>>>>> the institute, but am wondering if there is such a thing or
>>>>>>> whether this field is rather for internal database purposes?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any advise would be appreciated!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With best regards,
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Aaike De Wever
>>>>>>> BioFresh Science Officer
>>>>>>> Freshwater Laboratory, Royal Belgian Institute of Natural
>>>>>>> Sciences Vautierstraat 29, 1000 Brussels
>>>>>>> Belgium
>>>>>>> tel.:
+32(0)2 627 43 90
>>>>>>> mobile.:
+32(0)486 28 05 93
>>>>>>> email: <
aaike.dewever@naturalsciences.be>
>>>>>>> skype: aaikew
>>>>>>> AIM:
aaike@mac.com
>>>>>>> LinkedIn: <
http://be.linkedin.com/in/aaikedewever>
>>>>>>> BioFresh: <
http://www.freshwaterbiodiversity.eu/> and
>>>>>>> <
http://data.freshwaterbiodiversity.eu/>
>>>>>>> Belgian Biodiversity Platform: <
http://www.biodiversity.be>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Paul J. Morris
>>>> Biodiversity Informatics Manager
>>>> Harvard University Herbaria/Museum of Comparative Zoölogy
>>>>
mole@morris.net AA3SD PGP public key available
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Robert A. Morris
>>>
>>> Emeritus Professor of Computer Science
>>> UMASS-Boston
>>> 100 Morrissey Blvd
>>> Boston, MA 02125-3390
>>>
>>> IT Staff
>>> Filtered Push Project
>>> Harvard University Herbaria
>>> Harvard University
>>>
>>> email:
morris.bob@gmail.com
>>> web:
http://efg.cs.umb.edu/
>>> web:
http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush
>>>
http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram
>>> ===
>>> The content of this communication is made entirely on my
>>> own behalf and in no way should be deemed to express
>>> official positions of The University of Massachusetts at Boston or
>>> Harvard University.
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>
>
> --
> Paul J. Morris
> Biodiversity Informatics Manager
> Harvard University Herbaria/Museum of Comparative Zoölogy
>
mole@morris.net AA3SD PGP public key available
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