<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I share Bob's concerns, too. However, I am also skeptical that any action of TDWG will influence or even sway the authorities; in the end, I think, it's the people who are motivated to change things, and who TDWG as an organization needs to empower, such as in sharing information freely. And while I'm all for taking a principled stance, it can easily cross over into taking the moral high-ground, which would be counterproductive. <div><br></div><div>Moreover, TDWG hasn't itself, I think, shown particular principled leadership in terms of promoting openly sharing information about the world's biodiversity. Openly sharing information isn't just about the standards for doing so being open. It's a socio-technical undertaking. Information is based on data, is produced through science, and is generated through software. TDWG hasn't, as far as I am aware, taken principled stances, as for example would be evidenced by rules for presenting at its annual conference, on open science, open data, or open-source software. So taking a principled stance now in the question of whether convening in China is acceptable or not seems inconsistent to me with the historic behavior of the organization.</div><div><br></div><div>So, I'm as unhappy with the choice of venue as Bob is, but I also don't think it's such a drastic departure from past decisions. And perhaps that's what's really concerning about it.</div><div><br></div><div>Finally, just to be clear, the same disclaimer applies as Annie's: All of this expresses solely my personal opinion, and should not be construed to reflect the views of my employer.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-hilmar</div><div><div><br><div><div>On May 10, 2012, at 6:23 PM, Annie Simpson wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><p class="p1">Dear Fellow TDWG members:</p><p class="p1">Often the discussions on TDWG lists can overwhelm due to number of responses and depth of content. I am therefore astounded that there have been no replies to Bob Morris' well-thought-out and convincingly-delivered argument of 22-April (copied here below) about our 2012 meetings. I did not answer sooner under the assumption that there was discussion going on behind the scenes by the TDWG Executive. So far, crickets.</p><p class="p2">I'd like to go on the record with a personal but hesitant response that does not reflect the views of my employer.</p><p class="p2">I share Bob's concerns. What do the rest of you think?</p><p class="p2"><br></p><p class="p1">Annie Simpson</p><p class="p2"><br></p>
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="t1">
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<td valign="top" class="td1"><p class="p4">From:</p>
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<td valign="top" class="td2"><p class="p5">Bob Morris <<a href="mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com">morris.bob@gmail.com</a>></p>
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<td valign="top" class="td1"><p class="p4">To:</p>
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<td valign="top" class="td2"><p class="p5"><a href="mailto:tdwg@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg@lists.tdwg.org</a></p>
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<td valign="top" class="td1"><p class="p4">Date:</p>
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<td valign="top" class="td2"><p class="p5">22/04/2012 15:22</p>
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<td valign="top" class="td1"><p class="p6">Subject:</p>
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<td valign="top" class="td2"><p class="p5">[tdwg] tdwg 2012 in inappropriate venue</p>
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<td valign="top" class="td1"><p class="p6">Sent by:</p>
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<td valign="top" class="td2"><p class="p5"><a href="mailto:tdwg-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</a></p>
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</table><p class="p7"><br></p><p class="p7"><br></p><p class="p7"><br></p><p class="p8">Dear fellow TDWG members,<br>
<br>
As I said publicly at TDWG 2011, I feel that it is inappropriate for<br>
an organization devoted to the open exchange of scientific data and<br>
information to hold a meeting in a country where there is routine<br>
governmental suppression of internet connectivity on political<br>
grounds. I personally would attend any scientific meeting in such a<br>
country except one by an organization like TDWG which should be taking<br>
a position about openness of access to information, and I hope others<br>
will join me in this position and publicly decline to attend TDWG<br>
2012.<br>
<br>
Sometimes an argument is made in such cases that participation is a<br>
way to support the hosting organization, which in this case is<br>
eminent. But often just the opposite can result: the authorities will<br>
proudly say to themselves: "See, they come anyway."<br>
<br>
Bob Morris<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Robert A. Morris<br>
<br>
Emeritus Professor of Computer Science<br>
UMASS-Boston<br>
100 Morrissey Blvd<br>
Boston, MA 02125-3390<br>
<br>
IT Staff<br>
Filtered Push Project<br>
Harvard University Herbaria<br>
Harvard University<br>
<br>
email: <a href="mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com">morris.bob@gmail.com</a><br>
web: <a href="http://efg.cs.umb.edu/">http://efg.cs.umb.edu/</a><br>
web: <a href="http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush">http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush</a><br>
<a href="http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram">http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram</a><br>
===<br>
The content of this communication is made entirely on my<br>
own behalf and in no way should be deemed to express<br>
official positions of The University of Massachusetts at Boston or<br>
Harvard University.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
tdwg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:tdwg@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg@lists.tdwg.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg">http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg</a></p>
_______________________________________________<br>tdwg mailing list<br><a href="mailto:tdwg@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg@lists.tdwg.org</a><br>http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg<br></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Monaco" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">-- </span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Monaco" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">===========================================================</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Monaco" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">: Hilmar Lapp -:- Durham, NC -:- <a href="http://informatics.nescent.org">informatics.nescent.org</a> :</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Monaco" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">===========================================================</span></font></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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