Richard you make several good points, and I should state that I see species as more "real" than<div>other ranks.</div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps this example might help show the distinction I am trying to make.</div>
<div><br></div><div>When a medical entomologist states that a species X, breeds in shallow ephemeral pools and</div><div>has a preference for human blood meals do they mean</div><div><br></div><div>The taxonomic hypothesis A. o. has these properties or</div>
<div><br></div><div>the "natural" unit currently called A. o. has these properties ?</div><div><br></div><div>I think they mean the second and would benefit if the statements made about that natural unit</div><div>
could stay linked to the natural unit species concept over time. </div><div><br></div><div>Unfortunately under the "species is the taxonomic hypothesis" system they don't.</div><div><br></div><div>Does this help clarify the distinction I am trying to make?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><div><br></div><div>- Pete</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Richard Pyle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:deepreef@bishopmuseum.org">deepreef@bishopmuseum.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="Ih2E3d">> How do others think of species?<br>
<br>
</div>I do not think that species are any more "real" than subspecies, genera, and<br>
families. I believe all of these things are abstract notions representing<br>
aggregate sets of individual organisms, defined and labelled by humans in a<br>
way that allows us to communicate with each other with some degree of<br>
efficiency (though certainly not perfect efficiency).<br>
<br>
Having said that, I think it is highly practical in many cases to treat<br>
units of "species" as though they were cohesive, singular, "real" entities<br>
that exist in nature (within a given slice of geologic time) independantly<br>
of human interpretations, because doing so also facilitates communication.<br>
This is particularly true in cases characterized by realtively broad<br>
periods/populations of phenetic and/or genetic stasis, homogeneity and<br>
consistency, punctuated by relatively small periods/populations of phenetic<br>
and/or genetic divergence, heterogeneity and spectral forms. I think the<br>
dangers and problems (nomenclatural instability, poorly supported<br>
hypotheses, confusing and conflicting lines of evidence) are most evident<br>
when people attempt to apply assumptions based on the "reality" of species<br>
to cases that are not so characterized.<br>
<br>
Thus, I do not believe that species are "real", but I believe there are<br>
contexts in which is it useful to think of them as such.<br>
<br>
I think the practice of identifying individual organisms to species concepts<br>
is mostly independent of whether those concepts represent human-defined<br>
constructs, or "natural" units that exist in nature independantly of human<br>
interpretations. Analagous to my view of species, I think that morphological<br>
and genetic characters are properties of organisms, but in many cases it is<br>
highly practical to treat them as though they are properties of "species",<br>
given the same caveats described above.<br>
<br>
Aloha,<br>
Rich<br>
<br>
Richard L. Pyle, PhD<br>
Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences<br>
and Associate Zoologist in Ichthyology<br>
Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop Museum<br>
1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817<br>
Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252<br>
email: <a href="mailto:deepreef@bishopmuseum.org">deepreef@bishopmuseum.org</a><br>
<a href="http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html" target="_blank">http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>---------------------------------------------------------------<br>Pete DeVries<br>Department of Entomology<br>University of Wisconsin - Madison<br>445 Russell Laboratories<br>
1630 Linden Drive<br>Madison, WI 53706<br>------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>