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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=937353703-29082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks Bob,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=937353703-29082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=937353703-29082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I'm still waiting to hear back from them (Google) on
related stuff (mostly concerning bulk uploading). I know they prefer that
I upload the full-res version, even though they shrink it down when
streaming. I'd actually rather them have the full-res versions, so that as
future internet bandwidth paradigms allow higher-res streaming, they can
automatically step it up without input from me. Of course, uploading a
178MB file compared with a 3.5MB file -- multiplied several thousand times -- is
another factor that cannot be completely ignored.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=937353703-29082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=937353703-29082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The ideal would be a JPEG2K-ish standard as you describe
with user-specified resolution. Rather than get Google to build another
stand-alone app, I'd rather see them come out with their own browser with
built-in support for Earth (and customized/optimized video streaming, Google
Base access, Co-op features, etc.) all built in.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=937353703-29082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=937353703-29082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>So far, no NDAs....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=937353703-29082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=937353703-29082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Aloha,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=937353703-29082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Rich</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Bob Morris [mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:34 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Richard
Pyle<BR><B>Cc:</B> Eamonn O Tuama; Timothy M. Jones;
tdwg@lists.tdwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [tdwg] Species pages and
video<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>JPEG2000 video standards---which are generally mp4--- probably
address this problem, because JPEG2K can decompress at arbitrary resolution,
that is you can tell the remote server what resolution you want the stuff sent
at. I think, but am not certain, that this would be the case for the video
standards too, since it should be doable frame at a time. Indeed, I vaguely
recall a demo at a JPEG2K meeting in which video was streamed at resolutions
which varied with time. There are lots of questions, but apparently few
answers, of the form "does Flash support JPEG2000. Of course rendering
in the current browsers remains a problem if it doesn't, though people
certainly tolerate standalone Google Earth, for example---so why wouldn't they
tolerate standalone video viewers. Ask your Google video pals what's up.
Preferably not under an NDA. :-) <BR><BR>Bob<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 8/28/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Richard
Pyle</B> <<A
href="mailto:deepreef@bishopmuseum.org">deepreef@bishopmuseum.org</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>Dear
all,<BR><BR>I've been meaning to jump in on this conversation several times,
but I keep<BR>getting side-tracked.<BR><BR>For over two years now, we have
been developing a protocol and associated<BR>software tools (I use the
pronoun "we" loosely as far as the software <BR>development goes -- that has
been entirely the work of Rob Whitton) to allow<BR>us to harness the power
of video for our scientific purposes. We conduct<BR>surveys of
coral-reef fishes in the Pacific, and the use of hi-definition
<BR>underwater video cameras allow us to make dozens of "video vouchers" (as
we<BR>call them) of fish species in the context of their natural habitat on
every<BR>single dive (again, I use the pronoun "we" loosely, as John Earle
is the <BR>primary videographer on our surveys). Though perhaps
not as ideal as<BR>specimens, the video is much better than in-situ still
photos (especially at<BR>hi-def resolution), because it gives us multiple
angles on the subject <BR>(increasing the probability of capturing that
elusive but diagnostic small<BR>black spot near the anus), as well as
behavior (which can sometimes aid in<BR>confirming
identifications). And it's a LOT better than just an un-imaged
<BR>observation record. It also allows us to document many more species on
a<BR>given dive than we could by collecting alone.<BR><BR>The software that
Rob Whitton has developed is optimized for field-based<BR>capturing of
metadata. We ( i.e., John) will generally catalog the
video<BR>clips on the same day the video was taken. Metadata is
robust, with full<BR>locality/habitat data (including depth and other
parameters), as well as<BR>rich content cataloging (multiple identifications
of the same imaged <BR>organism, etc.) At the moment, we (i.e.,
John & Rob) have something on the<BR>order of 7,000 video clips
cataloged -- representing nearly a terabyte of<BR>video files (a mix of both
standard-resolution DV and HDV). Very soon we <BR>will have an
initial website online to allow searching/etc., and we have a<BR>couple of
major regional checklists in the works that will cite these
"video<BR>vouchers" in addition to more traditional means of documenting
species at <BR>localities.<BR><BR>So...the reason I am posting this now
(rather than wait until the site is<BR>online) is to ask others who are
exploring the use of video content for<BR>similar purposes how they plan to
implement it. <BR><BR>Our current plan is to maintain an archive of
full-resolution digital video<BR>files on our local SAN, but the files are
much too large to stream in<BR>real-time over almost any typical internet
connection, and moreover would <BR>completely choke our bandwidth if the
site ever became popular. For this<BR>reason, we want to use a
video hosting service to stream the content, which<BR>we will link to from
our own web databases (which themselves will serve only <BR>keyframes from
the clips).<BR><BR>We've been working with Google to sort out a way to do
batch uploads onto<BR>Google Video. I generally prefer the Google
Video environment over YouTube,<BR>but I'm not familiar with other video
hosting services that are out there. <BR><BR>Here is a sample
clip:<BR><BR><A
href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=153611051098248174">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=153611051098248174</A><BR><BR>Google
Video allows me to dump all of the metadata into the Description
<BR>field. Unfortunately, this is not very
structured. However, Google Video<BR>allows you to link back to
your own web page for each clip, so I can have<BR>that link go to an LSID
resolver, or some other web interface where more <BR>structured metadata can
be served. Another feature I like is that you can<BR>lay as many
subtitle/caption files as you want. For example, if you go
to<BR>the link above, in the lower right corner you'll see a little "CC"
icon. <BR>Click on the drop-down button to the right of the "CC" button, and
you can<BR>choose from any number of subtitle tracks. In the
example above, there are<BR>two different tracks: "Audio Dialog" transcribes
the spoken words you hear <BR>on the clip's soundtrack, and "Species List",
which names the species as<BR>they appear in the clip. Rob
Whitton is developing his software to<BR>automatically generate the text for
the metadata and multiple CC tracks, so <BR>that we can (eventually)
automate the upload process.<BR><BR>The main problem -- which I think will
be true of any of these video hosting<BR>services -- is the limited
resoloution of the clips as they are streamed.<BR>For example, here is a
frame from the original HDV clip in the above link:<BR><BR><A
href="http://www2.bishopmuseum.org/testvideo/Frame01.jpg">http://www2.bishopmuseum.org/testvideo/Frame01.jpg</A><BR><BR>Here
is the same frame at the resolution that the video is rendered on <BR>Google
Video:<BR><BR><A
href="http://www2.bishopmuseum.org/testvideo/Frame02.jpg">http://www2.bishopmuseum.org/testvideo/Frame02.jpg</A><BR><BR>Obviously,
the full-resolution video contains a LOT more information. The
<BR>problem is that an MPG (i.e., compressed) copy of the full-resolution
HDV<BR>clip is 172MB, whereas the compressed version that Google streams is
3.5MB.<BR>The problem is not with Google Video -- it's with the
internet. Most people <BR>will not have access to the badwidth
necessary to stream video at the full<BR>HDV resolution.<BR><BR>So...what
we'd like is a service that will allow people to view the clips at<BR>a
resolution that is reasonable to stream over the internet (Google Video,
<BR>YouTube, etc.), but then have the option of downloading the
full-resolution<BR>file (in this case, 178MB) if they want to see it on
their own computer, and<BR>are willing to wait for the full
download. Obviously, we'll have to somehow <BR>regulate the
downloading so that we don't choke our bandwidth -- but we want<BR>to allow
people to have access to the full-resolution imagery.<BR><BR>My hope is that
Google (or whoever) itself would offer the service of <BR>streaming content
at an appropriate resolution, but then allowing people to<BR>download the
full resolution clip as a file, if they want (i.e., using<BR>Google's or
whoever's bandwidth, and not ours). But for the time being, we
<BR>mostly see Google as a way to: 1) Manage streaming of video content at
low<BR>resolution, and 2) increase visibility (through Google searches_ of
the<BR>content we do have.<BR><BR>Of course, the latter depends heavily on
how well the metadata are fleshed <BR>out and structured -- which brings me
back to Éamonn's post. Like him, I am<BR>very-much looking forward to
conversations at the upcoming meeting in<BR>Bratislava.<BR><BR>Meanwhile, I
guess the main point of this message is to ask whether others <BR>know of
analagous projects, and how they have dealt with issues of<BR>bandwidth,
bulk uploading to video hosting services, and metadata structure<BR>and
content.<BR><BR>Aloha,<BR>Rich<BR><BR>Richard L. Pyle, PhD<BR>Database
Coordinator for Natural Sciences <BR> and Associate Zoologist in
Ichthyology<BR>Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop Museum<BR>1525 Bernice
St., Honolulu, HI 96817<BR>Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252<BR>email:
<A
href="mailto:deepreef@bishopmuseum.org">deepreef@bishopmuseum.org</A><BR><A
href="http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html">http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html</A><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:tdwg-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</A><BR>>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:tdwg-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Eamonn O Tuama<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:20
AM<BR>> To: 'Timothy M. Jones'; <A
href="mailto:tdwg@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg@lists.tdwg.org</A><BR>> Subject:
RE: [tdwg] Species pages and video<BR>><BR>> Dear
Timothy,<BR>><BR>> I think the use of video is valuable even if there
is not<BR>> much motion involved - combining a series of stills with
<BR>> voice over can be very effective - and the many video
hosting<BR>> services makes it relatively easy to get online.
However,<BR>> unlike text which can be mined for information, video
(and<BR>> images) require good metadata to describe what the content is
<BR>> about - to aid in searches, etc.<BR>><BR>> Your species pages
with their general facts and interactive<BR>> taxonomic keys span the
task areas covered by SDD (Structure<BR>> of Descriptive Data) and SPM
(Species Profile Model) TDWG <BR>> interest groups. I look forward to
fruitful discussions<BR>> between the two at the forthcoming meeting in
Bratislava that<BR>> will lead to standardised ways of marking up your
species<BR>> content so that it is more easily discoverable, accessible
<BR>> and re-usable (assuming permissions<BR>> granted) across what
GBIF has labelled "The Universal<BR>> Biodiversity Data
Bus".<BR>><BR>> Best regards,<BR>><BR>> Éamonn<BR>><BR>>
-----Original Message----- <BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:tdwg-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</A><BR>>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:tdwg-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Timothy M. Jones<BR>> Sent: 10 August 2007 16:48 <BR>>
To: <A href="mailto:tdwg@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg@lists.tdwg.org</A><BR>>
Subject: [tdwg] Species pages and video<BR>><BR>>
Hello,<BR>><BR>> I will not be attending the meeting this
fall but thought<BR>> that this may be of interest
to those interested in species<BR>> pages models.<BR>> I am working on
species pages that include the use of video.<BR>> The videos were only
added a month ago and are a bit<BR>> rudimentary (with budget-conscious
equipment) but the <BR>> potential now seems truly
limitless.<BR>><BR>> Examples -<BR>> <A
href="http://utc.usu.edu/factsheets/CarexFSF/new/carex_eburnea_species.htm">http://utc.usu.edu/factsheets/CarexFSF/new/carex_eburnea_species.htm
</A><BR>><BR>> <A
href="http://utc.usu.edu/factsheets/CarexFSF/new/carex_nebrascensis_">http://utc.usu.edu/factsheets/CarexFSF/new/carex_nebrascensis_</A><BR>>
species.htm<BR>><BR>> <A
href="http://utc.usu.edu/factsheets/CarexFSF/new/carex_mitchelliana_">http://utc.usu.edu/factsheets/CarexFSF/new/carex_mitchelliana_</A><BR>>
species.htm<BR>><BR>> Comments appreciated,<BR>> Timothy
M. Jones<BR>> <A
href="http://utc.usu.edu/keys/Carex/Carex.html">http://utc.usu.edu/keys/Carex/Carex.html
</A><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> tdwg
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clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Robert A. Morris<BR>Professor of Computer
Science<BR>UMASS-Boston<BR><A
href="mailto:ram@cs.umb.edu">ram@cs.umb.edu</A><BR><A
href="http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/">http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/</A><BR><A
href="http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram">http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram</A><BR><A
href="http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram/calendar.html">http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram/calendar.html
</A><BR>phone (+1)617 287 6466 </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>