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John et al.,<br>
I would cast a vote in favor of adding the "ID" forms for
dwc:recordedBy, etc.(i.e. dwc:recordedByID). This would provide a
straightforward and semantically clear way of differentiating between
the string literal and URI forms of the terms. I think that this is
particularly important if the existing terms are intended to be used
with string literals. <br>
<br>
In addition to the clarity that this would add, it would also make use
of the metadata easier. Earlier in one of the threads, I mentioned
using the RDF file associated with a GUID as a data source for creating
XHTML for the human-readable representation through XSLT or AJAX. I
have been playing around with this idea a little bit. In the source
RDF file:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu/baskauf/66921.rdf">http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu/baskauf/66921.rdf</a><br>
I applied the suggestion we discussed of representing the terms such as
dwc:recordedBy as URIs, then labeling the URIs by using the label
property in a description about the URI.<br>
I am a novice XSLT user, so there may be a much more straightforward
method, but in my test:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu/xml/image-generic.xsl">http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu/xml/image-generic.xsl</a><br>
which transforms the RDF file to XHTML, it was a pain extracting the
label data from the other Description elements to get the text
representation of the terms. In contrast, it would have been a very
simple and straightforward matter to create the clickable hyperlinks I
desired if the string and URI versions had been recorded as separate
terms. (The end result of the XSLT is used in a test XHTML file using
Javascript<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu/metadata-test.htm?baskauf/66921/metadata/img">http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu/metadata-test.htm?baskauf/66921/metadata/img</a><br>
where you can see the clickable links I'm talking about. Eventually
when I'm done testing, the XHTML will be used for GUID resolution as in
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu/baskauf/66921">http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu/baskauf/66921</a>)<br>
<br>
I think that if creating an RDF/XML representation is going to be a
requirement for issuing GUIDs, then facilitating this kind of use would
be a good thing. I'm still waiting to see any real use of those RDF
data by Linked Data clients, whereas using the RDF/XML for XSLT or AJAX
has a clear benefit right now.<br>
<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
John Wieczorek wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTilcgZ5qBE-41yWO7xGeVzuNP5gyJsHNstCZKzOH@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dear all,
Sorry to have to jump in to the discussion late. I'm just back out of
the field in Jujuy where the winds took out the little connectivity
that once existed.
I'm stepping back to the beginning of the conversation, out of the RDF
representation issue, which seems to reasonable resolved under the
thread "Darwin Core generic XML with attributes."
The Darwin Core terms Steve has brought to attention are among a
larger set (relationshipAccordingTo, georeferencedBy,
measurementDeterminedBy, recordedBy, identifiedBy) that all are
intended to cover the real world situation of data coming out of
database fields for which there was no sense of persistent global
unique identification. They were meant for literal strings for
dcterms:Agents. There is nothing to proscribe the use of URIs in these
fields. However, though there has been a lot of discussion about how
one might represent the URI and string literal information about the
recordedBy Agent, there has been no statement of consensus in the TAG
from discussions in this thread and the related thread "Darwin Core
generic XML with attributes" about whether actionable GUIDs for these
same concepts should have their own terms.
As I see it, we got this far:
In the thread "Darwin Core generic XML with attributes" Rod Page said:
"If you want a literal for <dwc:recordedBy> (say for ease of display)
then I think you want a different tag that is expressly defined to do
just that. For example,
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rs.tdwg.org/ontology/voc/TaxonOccurrence">http://rs.tdwg.org/ontology/voc/TaxonOccurrence</a>
has <identifiedTo> to point to a URI for a taxon, and
<identifiedToString> if you want the literal. I don't know if dwc has
anything equivalent for recordedBy (and can somebody please tell me
why we now have so many vocabularies for the same things?)"
I think what Rod proposes is cleaner than using the same term for two
purposes, as much as I too would like to have my cake and eat it. I
agree with Rod, except that dwc:recordedBy is the string literal
version of the concept, and no URI version (something like
dwc:recordedByID refines dcterms:identifier) currently exists. Up to
now there has not been a need expressed, hence, no such term was
included in DwC.
In answer to Rod's last question, we have many vocabularies
(unfinished attempts), but only one that is is a ratified standard.
That standard isn't an ontology, nor is it complete in describing best
practices for expressing information in all representations. It's
reasonably clear for how to share information in text files, and about
the recommendations for XML, but in terms of RDF it is silent,
awaiting the badly needed ontology work.
Reviewing DwC in light of these discussions, I noted the following:
1) The set of terms (relationshipAccordingTo, georeferencedBy,
measurementDeterminedBy, recordedBy, identifiedBy) all currently
refine an abstract term dwc:accordingTo, defined as "Abstract term to
attribute information to a source." This refinement doesn't really do
anything useful in my opinion. I think the term dwc:accordingTo should
be dropped, and the terms listed above should instead refine
dcterms:contributor.
2) For one of these concepts (nameAccordingTo) it was anticipated that
there would be actionable GUIDs and the term nameAccordingToID was
added to clarify the distinction. nameAccordingTo currently also
refines dwc:accordingTo, but I think this is erroneous, as it is meant
to refer to a publication, not to a dcterms:Agent. This problem will
be resolved if dwc:accordingTo is dropped and nameAccordingTo is
changed to have no refines value.
3) In cases where actionable GUIDs were anticipated to be commonly
used, terms with names ending with "ID" were added specifically for
this purpose (relatedResourceID, resourceID, resourceRelationshipID,
higherGeographyID, parentNameUsageID, nameAccordingToID,
originalNameUsageID, eventID, individualID, occurrenceID,
geologicalContextID, namePublishedInID, measurementID,
acceptedNameUsageID, scientificNameID, locationID, identificationID,
datasetID, taxonConceptID, taxonID). All of these terms refine
dcterms:identifier and many of them are examples illustrating Rod's
recommendation to separate identifiers from string literal
representations of the concepts. If it is deemed that further "ID"
terms are needed, then a public discussion must take place on the
tdwg-content list.
Dropping dwc:accordingTo, and changing the refinements requires the
procedure under section 3.3 of the Darwin Core Namespace Policy
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/namespace/index.htm#classesofchanges">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/namespace/index.htm#classesofchanges</a>).
I'll follow the protocol for changes for items 1 and 2 above, and
await further discussion on item 3.
Cheers,
John
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Bob Morris <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com"><morris.bob@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">As Peter Ansell points out, another solution seems to be to use two
dwc:recordedBy elements:
<rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">"http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"</a>
xmlns:dwc=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/">"http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/"</a>
>
<dwc:Occurrence rdf:about=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://herbarium.org/hb123456">"http://herbarium.org/hb123456"</a>>
<dwc:recordedBy
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me">"http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me"</a>/>
<dwc:recordedBy >Steve Baskauf</dwc:recordedBy>
</dwc:Occurrence>
I don't think the parse error is about the use of rdf:resource per se.
I must confess that I'm having trouble understanding how to conclude
from the RDF spec why the original is a parse error, but these things
usually can be understood by trying to show what the triples are, not
by staring at the spec for some rdf tag. I'm finding RDF/XML
increasingly irksome and unpleasant in this kind of task. If one
unwinds it here, I bet it is that your failing example has subject
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://herbarium.org/hb123456">"http://herbarium.org/hb123456"</a>, predicate dwc:recordedBy but is
trying to have two objects.
The fact that you want to associate the URI for you with the string
for you is probably a separate problem, and possibly not expressible
within dwc itself.
Bob
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Steve Baskauf
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:steve.baskauf@vanderbilt.edu"><steve.baskauf@vanderbilt.edu></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In the specific case of RDF, having your cake and eating it doesn't work.
Paste this:
<rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">"http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"</a>
xmlns:dwc=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/">"http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/"</a>
>
<dwc:Occurrence rdf:about=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://herbarium.org/hb123456">"http://herbarium.org/hb123456"</a>>
<dwc:recordedBy
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me">"http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me"</a>>Steve
Baskauf</dwc:recordedBy>
</dwc:Occurrence>
</rdf:RDF>
into the W3C RDF validator at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/">http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/</a>
and it will tell you "The attributes on this property element, are not
permitted with any content; expecting end element tag.". So in RDF elements
having the rdf:resource attribute have to be empty elements. I tried
validating an example where the recordedBy property was included twice, once
with a URI object and once with a string literal object. It validated as
"good" RDF, but I think it would be confusing to a linked data client that
would really have no clue that both objects represented the same thing and
would probably "assume" that the occurrence was recorded by two entities
rather than one..
A possible solution would be to use dcterms:description as another
attribute. dcterms:description is defined as "An account of the resource.
Description may include ...a free-text account of the resource." I couldn't
find a more appropriate Dublin Core to use as an attribute. So running this
example:
<rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">"http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"</a>
xmlns:dcterms=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://purl.org/dc/terms/">"http://purl.org/dc/terms/"</a>
xmlns:dwc=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/">"http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/"</a>
>
<dwc:Occurrence rdf:about=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://herbarium.org/hb123456">"http://herbarium.org/hb123456"</a>>
<dwc:recordedBy
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me">"http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me"</a>
dcterms:description="Steve Baskauf" />
</dwc:Occurrence>
</rdf:RDF>
through the validator shows that this RDF asserts the following triples:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://herbarium.org/hb123456">http://herbarium.org/hb123456</a> dwc:recordedBy
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me">http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me</a>
and that
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me">http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me</a>
dcterms:description "Steve Baskauf"
In other words, the occurrence was recorded by me (identified by my URI) and
that the description of the thing represented by my URI is "Steve Baskauf".
That is pretty much a correct representation of the situation, although the
whole point of using a URI as the object of a property is for a client to
dereference the URI to find out more about the object. The FOAF file
(pointed to by the URI) would provide that information without the
dcterms:description attribute.
Steve
Jim Croft wrote:
wondering if
<dwc:recordedBy
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me">"http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me"</a>>Steve
Baskauf</dwc:recordedBy>
is legit?
just a have your cake and eat it kinda guy...
jim
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 7:41 AM, Kevin Richards
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:RichardsK@landcareresearch.co.nz"><RichardsK@landcareresearch.co.nz></a> wrote:
>>>From my understanding (and after reading the example Bob referred to), the
difference is:
[referring to external id]
<dwc:recordedBy
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me">"http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me"</a> />
[inline text]
<dwc:recordedBy>Steve Baskauf</dwc:recordedBy>
Look right?
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Jim Croft
Sent: Thursday, 20 May 2010 9:37 a.m.
To: Bob Morris
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tdwg-tag@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-tag@lists.tdwg.org</a>
Subject: Re: [tdwg-tag] string literals vs. uris for dwc:recordedBy,
dwc:identifiedBy, and dwc:georeferencedBy in RDF
Hi Bob - should the same term allow both types of content, or should
there be a different term for each? Does it matter? Should
applications be smart enough to tell the difference and know what to
do with it?
Not really asking what the specification says, but about purity and
wholesomeness of design... :)
jim
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 4:26 AM, Bob Morris <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com"><morris.bob@gmail.com></a> wrote:
Exactly this example is given in
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web4.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#section-Syntax-property-attributes">http://web4.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#section-Syntax-property-attributes</a>
so I would find it regrettable if DwC does something somewhere that
makes this substitution impossible or discouraged, or encourages tool
construction that does so, or encourages documention be interpreted in
a way that does so.
Indeed <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/rdf/dwcterms.rdf">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/rdf/dwcterms.rdf</a> defines its type to be
rdf:Property and is silent on any semantics but that. My own
conclusion is that neither the intent or the outcome of the rdf
version of dwcterms discourages what you want, though I suppose the
intent part would be clearer if the documentation also said that a URI
can always be used, but applications are responsible for interpreting
it.
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:09 AM, Steve Baskauf
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:steve.baskauf@vanderbilt.edu"><steve.baskauf@vanderbilt.edu></a> wrote:
The definition for the Darwin Core term recordedBy
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#recordedBy">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#recordedBy</a>
says "A list (concatenated and separated) of names ...". The examples
given are string literals. However, when using this term as a predicate
in RDF, it would seem preferable to use a URI to an RDF representation
of the entity (if one exists) rather than a string literal. For
example, can I use:
<dwc:recordedBy
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me">"http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~steve.baskauf/foaf.rdf#me"</a>/>
rather than
<dwc:recordedBy>Steven J. Baskauf</dwc:recordedBy>
?
Steve Baskauf
--
Steven J. Baskauf, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer
Vanderbilt University Dept. of Biological Sciences
postal mail address:
VU Station B 351634
Nashville, TN 37235-1634, U.S.A.
delivery address:
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phone: (615) 343-4582, fax: (615) 343-6707
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UMASS-Boston
100 Morrissey Blvd
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_________________
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postal mail address:
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
--
Robert A. Morris
Emeritus Professor of Computer Science
UMASS-Boston
100 Morrissey Blvd
Boston, MA 02125-3390
Associate, Harvard University Herbaria
email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ram@cs.umb.edu">ram@cs.umb.edu</a>
web: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/">http://bdei.cs.umb.edu/</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Steven J. Baskauf, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer
Vanderbilt University Dept. of Biological Sciences
postal mail address:
VU Station B 351634
Nashville, TN 37235-1634, U.S.A.
delivery address:
2125 Stevenson Center
1161 21st Ave., S.
Nashville, TN 37235
office: 2128 Stevenson Center
phone: (615) 343-4582, fax: (615) 343-6707
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu">http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu</a>
</pre>
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