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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=652502502-01052009><FONT
face="Courier New">Kevin</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=652502502-01052009><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=652502502-01052009><FONT
face="Courier New">I agree, technically it is very easy. Corporate IT groups in
largish government institutions such as ours, however have a deeply ingrained
mistrust of anything "new" especially if it came from an online community such
as ours.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=652502502-01052009><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=652502502-01052009><FONT
face="Courier New">I know I could do this in 5 minutes while sipping a coffee,
but instead I'd have to generate an overview document explaining why the
change is necessary, along with a project plan, and a change control
document indicating what is to happen and what happens if the change
doesn't work. Sheer tedium.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=652502502-01052009></SPAN><SPAN
class=652502502-01052009><FONT face="Courier New"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=652502502-01052009><FONT
face="Courier New">Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=652502502-01052009><FONT
face="Courier New">Ben</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=652502502-01052009><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org
[mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Kevin
Richards<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 28 April 2009 5:27<BR><B>To:</B> Roger Hyam;
Roderic Page<BR><B>Cc:</B> tdwg-tag@lists.tdwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[tdwg-tag] LSIDs: web based (HTTP) resolvers and web
crawlers<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Its
not owning the domain that seems to be the problem - its apparently adding the
DNS SRV record that is too technical to cope with (although I didn't think
this was much harder than buying a domain name).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">And
I still think it is going to be essential to provider LSID / GUID hosting
services for those who cant set them up themselves.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Kevin<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org [mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Roger Hyam<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 28 April 2009 2:17
a.m.<BR><B>To:</B> Roderic Page<BR><B>Cc:</B>
tdwg-tag@lists.tdwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [tdwg-tag] LSIDs: web based
(HTTP) resolvers and web crawlers<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>This confirms my growing prejudice that third party GUID
providers are bad news beyond a simple PURL service. Even then it is better if
the owner of the PURL service is the owner of the data. i.e. only use some one
else's PURL if you don't/can't own your own domain. Hands up who is incapable
of buying a domain name!<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Roger<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 27 Apr 2009, at 14:30, Roderic Page
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Dear Nicky,<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Ouch!<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I'm not sure I fully understand how 30* redirects work with
respect to web crawlers, but I'm not sure they will help in this
case. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>If the TDWG LSID resolver is a full blown resolver, then
for each request from the crawler it will be doing the full LSID resolution
(three calls, one for authority WSDL, one for service WSDL, one for metadata).
It may cache the WSDLs, but it will still do at least one call to the service
(unless it has cached the metadata as well).<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Is the solution to add TDWG to your robots.txt file, and
have the LSID resolver respect the settings in that file? TDWG could also
implement metadata caching so it wouldn't need to hammer you so much (i.e.,
when a crawler hit TDWG, TDWG would reply with the cached
metadata).<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Perhaps LSID services such as IPNI's could also implement
etag headers, which would help avoid excessive traffic from TDWG when caching
(TDWG could regularly cache metadata form IPNI, respecting the robots.txt
files, and first checking whether the metadata had changed using etag and/or
last modified headers).<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I assume the DOI resolve has similar issues. It's
robots.txt file looks like this:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Crawl-delay: 5<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Request-rate: 1/5<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Hope this makes sense, my understanding of the HTTP
headers/redirects/robots.txt is not particularly deep.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Regards<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Rod<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 27 Apr 2009, at 13:54, Nicola Nicolson
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Hi,</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Further to
my last design question re LSID HTTP proxies (thanks for the responses), I
wanted to raise the issue of HTTP LSID proxies and crawlers, in particular the
crawl delay part of the robots exclusion protocol.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">I'll outline
a situation we had recently:</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">The GBIF
portal and ZipCodeZoo site both inclde IPNI LSIDs in the pages. These are
presented in their proxied form using the TDWG LSID resolver (eg<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><A
href="http://lsid.tdwg.org/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:783030-1"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">http://lsid.tdwg.org/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:783030-1</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">). Using the
TDWG resolver to access the data for an IPNI LSID does not issue any kind of
HTTP redirect, instead the web resolver uses the LSID resolution steps to get
the data and presents it in its own response (ie returning a HTTP 200 OK
response).</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">The problem
happens when one of these sites that includes proxied IPNI LSIDs is crawled by
a search engine. The proxied links appear to belong to tdwg.org, so whatever
crawl delay is agreed between TDWG and the crawler in question is used. The
crawler has no knowledge that behind the scenes the TDWG resolver is hitting
ipni.org. We (ipni.org) have agreed our own crawl limits with Google and the
other major search engines using directives in robots.txt and directly agreed
limits with Google (who don't use the robots.txt directly).</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">On a couple
of occasions in the past we have had to deny access to the TDWG LSID resolver
as it has been responsible for far more traffic than we can support (up
to 10 times the crawl limits we have agreed with search engine bots) -
this due to the pages on the GBIF portal and / or zipcodezoo being crawled by
a search engine, which in turn triggers a high volume of requests from TDWG to
IPNI. The crawler itself has no knowledge that it is in effect accessing data
held at ipni.org rather than tdwg.org as the HTTP response is HTTP
200.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">One of Rod's
emails recently mentioned that we need a resolver to act like a tinyurl or
bit.ly. I have pasted below the HTTP headers for an HTTP request to the TDWG
LSID resolver, and to tinyurl / bit.ly. To the end user it looks as though
tdwg.org is the true location of the LSID resource, whereas with the tinyurl
and bitly both just redirect traffic.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">I'm just
posting this for discussion really - if we are to mandate use of a web based
HTTP resolver/proxies, it should really issue 30* redirects so that
established crawl delays between producer and consumer will be used. The
alternative would be for the HTTP resolver to read and process the directives
in robots.txt, but this would be difficult to implement as it is not in itself
a crawler, just a gateway.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">I'm sure
that if proxied forms of LSIDs become more prevalent this problem will become
more widespread, so now - with the on-going attempt to define what services a
GUID resolver should provide - might be a good time to plan how to fix
this.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">cheers,<BR>Nicky</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">[nn00kg@kvstage01
~]$ curl -I<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><A
href="http://lsid.tdwg.org/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:783030-1"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">http://lsid.tdwg.org/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:783030-1</SPAN></A><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">HTTP/1.1 200
OK<BR>Via: 1.1 KISA01<BR>Connection: close<BR>Proxy-Connection: close<BR>Date:
Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:41:55 GMT<BR>Content-Type: application/xml<BR>Server:
Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS)</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">[nn00kg@kvstage01
~]$ curl -I<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><A
href="http://tinyurl.com/czkquy" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">http://tinyurl.com/czkquy</SPAN></A><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">HTTP/1.1 301
Moved Permanently<BR>Via: 1.1 KISA01<BR>Connection: close<BR>Proxy-Connection:
close<BR>Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:16:38 GMT<BR>Location:<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><A
href="http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantNameByVersion.do?id=783030-1&version=1.4&output_format=lsid-metadata&show_history=true"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantNameByVersion.do?id=783030-1&version=1.4&output_format=lsid-metadata&show_history=true</SPAN></A><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Content-type:
text/html<BR>Server: TinyURL/1.6<BR>X-Powered-By: PHP/5.2.9</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">[nn00kg@kvstage01
~]$ curl -I<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><A
href="http://bit.ly/KO1Ko" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">http://bit.ly/KO1Ko</SPAN></A><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">HTTP/1.1 301
Moved Permanently<BR>Via: 1.1 KISA01<BR>Connection:
Keep-Alive<BR>Proxy-Connection: Keep-Alive<BR>Content-Length: 287<BR>Date:
Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:19:48 GMT<BR>Location:<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">- Nicola
Nicolson<BR>- Science Applications Development,<BR>- Royal Botanic Gardens,
Kew,<BR>- Richmond, Surrey, TW9 3AB, UK<BR>- email:<SPAN
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href="mailto:n.nicolson@rbgkew.org.uk">n.nicolson@rbgkew.org.uk</A><BR>-
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