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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=440040109-06042009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I think some of the people involved in the LSID
discussion will be at the conference and I (for one) will certainly voice my
opinion (informed or otherwise) ... ;-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=440040109-06042009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=440040109-06042009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Paul</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org
[mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Roderic
Page<BR><B>Sent:</B> 06 April 2009 09:51<BR><B>To:</B> Schleidt
Katharina<BR><B>Cc:</B> tdwg-tag@lists.tdwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[tdwg-tag] SourceForge LSID project websites broken - role
forTDWG?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Persistence is much more than a domain name! Most data providers have a
poor track record of being online (<A
href="http://bioguid.info/status">http://bioguid.info/status</A> ), so it's
going to need more than, say, €1000.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>CrossRef works in part because there is a commitment to ensure
the online content is available (i.e., the DOI when resolved actually delivers
content). At present in our community nobody seems willing (or able) to
make this commitment.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>As Roger said</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">The
up coming e-Biosphere conference (June) is billed as an opportunity for the
heads of the bigger projects to get together and decide what will happen for
the next 10 years. If we are going to be using LSIDs in the future those heads
need to agree to fund a DOI-like infrastructure for LSIDs or come out and say
they are not prepared to do it. <O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I wonder whether they are listening to / aware of this discussion?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Regards</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Rod</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 6 Apr 2009, at 09:15, Schleidt Katharina wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV lang=DE
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
vlink="purple" link="blue">
<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">Hi
all,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">I
admit I’m glad that this topic does seem to be back in discussion. I’ve been
worried about LSIDs from the outset, but did not have the time or resources at
the time of decision to do anything about it. Most of this discussion reflects
what we’ve been discussing here in Vienna ever since the topic came up. Here
an excerpt from a recent mail of mine:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol"><SPAN>·<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">I have never been a proponent of
LSIDs. More to the point, I have been against their adoption from the onset.
The reasons for this are:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN>o<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">It’s misusing a technical solution as
an answer for a social problem. Just because LSIDs entail a list of (quite
necessary) requirements such as persistent IDs, dependability of availability
of online references, it can in no way guarantee this, it just nicely covers
the problem up<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN>o<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">I do not see the technology being
supported. IBM dropped it, and Cambridge Semantics Inc. also seems to have
gone other ways<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN>o<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">An example of the lack of
dependability of LSID servers seems to me to be the eternal problem with the
TDWG LSID Server<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN>o<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">I’m worried about a group such as
TDWG, which doesn’t have the backup to push through technology development, is
going towards requiring all adopters to implement non-mainstream technology in
order to maintain compatibility<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">We’ve
come to the conclusion, as mentioned several times in this thread, that what
we really need is the commitment to persistence, and no technology will
support us in that. Why waste nonexistent funds sorting out an esoteric
technology nobodies supporting; why not just buy a domain, pass a hat and set
up a trust fund with 1000€ (or $), and agree to have this domain available
over some institution (i.e. university) for the next 100 years. After that, my
non-existent great-grandchildren can sort out the
rest!<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">@Matt:<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/lod-datasets_2009-03-05.html">http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/lod-datasets_2009-03-05.html</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>is online again! And a short
absence/down-time will happen in all distributed technologies. If anything, I
believe that we should worry more about intelligent caching and harvesting
mechanisms!<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">:)<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">kathi<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif">Von:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</A>
[<A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">mailto:tdwg-tag-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</A>]<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>Im Auftrag von<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Roger
Hyam<BR><B>Gesendet:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Freitag, 03. April 2009
21:40<BR><B>An:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Peter
DeVries<BR><B>Cc:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:tdwg-tag@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-tag@lists.tdwg.org</A><BR><B>Betreff:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [tdwg-tag] SourceForge LSID
project websites broken - role for TDWG?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">If
LSIDs are to succeed for the biodiversity community they need a service with
long term support from large organisations and
projects. <O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">DOIs
have a business model. LSIDs currently do not. Without a business model (read
funding) we should stick to something that doesn't have
the implementation/adoption impediment of LSIDs and make the best of it
(i.e. just have a usage policy for HTTP URIs).<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">The
up coming e-Biosphere conference (June) is billed as an opportunity for the
heads of the bigger projects to get together and decide what will happen for
the next 10 years. If we are going to be using LSIDs in the future those heads
need to agree to fund a DOI-like infrastructure for LSIDs or come out and say
they are not prepared to do it. <O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">TDWG
can act as a forum for these projects/organisations to coordinate their
actions but doesn't have its own resources.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">I
believe this is largely a political problem not a technical one. It needs to
be resolved quickly.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">Personally
I hope that whatever we end up with is fully interoperable with the linked
data movement as they are trying to do more or less exactly what we are trying
to do . It may be worth reflecting on the fact that TBL et al are not telling
us how to do biology they are telling us how to link data up. That doesn't
make them right and us wrong but it is their field and not ours so maybe we
should listen.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">All
the best,<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">Roger<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">On
3 Apr 2009, at 20:04, Peter DeVries wrote:<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><BR><BR><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">I
think that the two initial comments are more about poking fun at the messenger
than addressing the message, yes web pages have typo's<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">and
links between sites can be down. The connection problem seems to be on the
University of Berlin end, not linked data.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">My
point is that this initiative has momentum and a number of enthusiastic
followers, where is the momentum and where are the enthusiastic followers
behind LSID's?<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">One
of the standards in linked data is that URI's should not change and they have
a number of good recommendations on how to mint them and persist them
over time. Some of these would apply to minting LSID's.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">It
is one thing to design a standard or technology, it is quite another to get
others to adopt and use it.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">You
might want to consider who has had more success in developing widely adopted
standards Tim Berners-Lee or TDWG?<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">I
may be relatively new to TDWG and Entomology but I am not new to biocomputing
or the issues involved in developing tools or<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">techniques
that are widely adopted.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">My
assumption is that you want to develop a standard that is widely adopted, and
that will involve addressing the concerns of potential<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">adopters.
My main needs involve tying species concepts to observations, environmental
and other data. The TWDG standards have<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">not
been very helpful to me and the reliance on LSID's is one problem. Those
implementations that are available do not really work.
Does<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">uBio
deliver properly encoded data? No, at least not always.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">-
Pete<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">On
Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Hilmar Lapp <<A
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:hlapp@duke.edu">hlapp@duke.edu</A>> wrote:<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><BR>On
Apr 3, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Peter DeVries wrote:<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">[...]<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><BR>3)
LSIDs increase the implementation costs significantly beyond the costs
required for domain registration and a web server.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><BR>I
think you'll find plenty of people who will argue that the cost of minting
persistent GUIDs is much higher than the cost of a web server and domain
registration in any event, and that it might be a Good Thing(tm) if an
identifier system doesn't pretend otherwise.<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">[...]
4) Tim Berners-Lee feels that LSIDs are unnecessary, and after spending
several years looking at this issue I think he is right. Even if TBL is wrong,
you have positioned yourself for an uphill battle for
adoption.<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><BR>He
has been wrong before. More to the point, I don't think this has to matter. In
1998 he would have probably said that DOIs are unnecessary. They may indeed
be, from a technological standpoint, but from a social and business
(sustainability) standpoint they've clearly been hugely successful. So I think
the question that matters much more is, is there (or will there be) a similar
ecosystem and environment for LSIDs that will make them equally useful. That's
what I'm less sure about.<BR><BR>Also, I think we ought not to confuse one
use-case for GUIDs (such as linked data) with the requirements for an
identifier system for biodiversity.<BR><BR>
-hilmar<BR><BR>BTW if anyone feels this is a long discussion that has
been had before, check out the thread that begins with "registering info:
uris" on the Code4Lib list (<A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="http://www.mail-archive.com/code4lib%25"
target=_blank>http://www.mail-archive.com/code4lib%</A><A
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="http://40listserv.nd.edu/" target=_blank>40listserv.nd.edu/</A>) It
turns out they struggle with similar questions (and also not for the first
time), except in a library context, which might be much closer to a museum
context than a semweb research community.<BR><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(136,136,136)"><BR>--</SPAN><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">===========================================================<BR>:
Hilmar Lapp -:- Durham, NC -:- hlapp at duke dot edu
:<BR>===========================================================<BR><BR><BR><BR><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>--<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>---------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Pete
DeVries<BR>Department of Entomology<BR>University of Wisconsin -
Madison<BR>445 Russell Laboratories<BR>1630 Linden Drive<BR>Madison, WI
53706<BR>------------------------------------------------------------<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">_______________________________________________<BR>tdwg-tag
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<DIV
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<DIV>---------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>Roderic Page</DIV>
<DIV>Professor of Taxonomy</DIV>
<DIV>DEEB, FBLS</DIV>
<DIV>Graham Kerr Building</DIV>
<DIV>University of Glasgow</DIV>
<DIV>Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Email: <A href="mailto:r.page@bio.gla.ac.uk">r.page@bio.gla.ac.uk</A></DIV>
<DIV>Tel: +44 141 330 4778</DIV>
<DIV>Fax: +44 141 330 2792</DIV>
<DIV>AIM: <A href="mailto:rodpage1962@aim.com">rodpage1962@aim.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Facebook: <A
href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1112517192">http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1112517192</A></DIV>
<DIV>Twitter: <A
href="http://twitter.com/rdmpage">http://twitter.com/rdmpage</A></DIV>
<DIV>Blog: <A
href="http://iphylo.blogspot.com">http://iphylo.blogspot.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Home page: <A
href="http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html">http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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