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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>How much does it cost to run an LSID
resolver, including anything from human resources to hardware? If this is high,
and TDWG can’t generate on an annually base this amount, then this needs be
considered, not just the idealistic aspects.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Donat<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> tdwg-guid-bounces@lists.tdwg.org
[mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Donald Hobern<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, December 02, 2007
10:26 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Kevin Richards<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Chuck Miller; tdwg-guid@lists.tdwg.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [tdwg-guid] Permanent
LSID Proxy</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>For what it's worth, I agree with Kevin on this.
The TDWG domain has been hosted by different organisations at different times
and it seems a natural place for such a resolver.<br>
<br>
Donald<br>
<br>
Kevin Richards wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I think this is the idea of
"communities". I.e. nothing is guaranteed to be forever.
It relies on us as a community to keep it going indefinitely. So yes on
the safe side, we could say "in the forseeable future", but on the
idealistic side we would say "indefinitely". <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>So I would reccommend staying with tdwg.org, as this
ties the "domain" to a global community / an ideal / an
aspiration, rather than to a commercial / funding based organisation (which
could, even more readily, be terminated).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Any "infrastrutcture" will need to be housed
somewhere and, I guess, this will be up to the members of our community to chip
in and provide the services required at the time (as GBIF have done
recently).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>This probably all sounds a bit "idealistic",
but I think ideals last longer than organisations, and longer than any specific
technology for that matter (LSIDs, DNS, Internet, etc).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Kevin<br>
<br>
>>> "Chuck Miller" <a href="mailto:Chuck.Miller@mobot.org"><Chuck.Miller@mobot.org></a>
1/12/2007 6:18 a.m. >>><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>How to turn LSIDs into a clickable link guaranteed to
work forever?<br>
<br>
Rich's vision:<br>
<a href="http://%3Csome" moz-do-not-send=true>http://<some</a> proxy
server>.org/?urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234<br>
<br>
This sounds to me like a question more about networking infrastructure,<br>
than TDWG's charter about data exchange protocols and content standards.<br>
I have always presumed that TDWG's standards would work using whatever<br>
networking infrastructure was available to them - e.g. DNS, HTTP, local<br>
provider servers, etc. <br>
<br>
But, then lsid.tdwg.org was created--a server. Servers are operational<br>
infrastructure. I don't think TDWG has (yet) a "forever"
funding stream<br>
to enable operational infrastructure - ongoing operation of server room,<br>
system administrator, network connections. But, something like<br>
lsid.tdwg.org would serve a valuable purpose as Rich notes of enabling<br>
LSIDs as a clickable link in publications or other online sources.<br>
<br>
Is there an existing international body that could operate a forever<br>
functioning LSID proxy (say like, proxy.lsid.org--which unfortunately is<br>
already lost to Lindsay-Strathmore Irrigation District)?<br>
<br>
Maybe we will be forced to accept that there is no "forever" on the<br>
Internet and accept instead the "forseeable future". I would
think for<br>
the forseeable future that GBIF would be a good place to put a new LSID<br>
infrastructure like this since they are in the "operations center"<br>
business already and TDWG is by charter not. So, maybe the proxy should<br>
be lsid.gbif.org?<br>
<br>
Chuck<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-guid-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</a><br>
[<a href="mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@lists.tdwg.org%5D" moz-do-not-send=true>mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@lists.tdwg.org]</a>
On Behalf Of Richard Pyle<br>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:39 AM<br>
To: 'Roger Hyam'; 'Roderic Page'<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:tdwg-guid@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-guid@lists.tdwg.org</a><br>
Subject: [tdwg-guid] Embedding LSID links within Publications<br>
<br>
<br>
Thank you, Roger, for launching the next conversation I wanted to start<br>
on<br>
this list (not to interrupt the previous conversation....but this one is<br>
actually more pressing for me right now): <br>
<br>
> Would it be better to take the approach we have with LSIDs <br>
> where we always cite a proxied version?<br>
> <br>
> What do other people do?<br>
<br>
As many of you already know, I'm planning to publish the description of<br>
five<br>
new species of Chromis in Zootaxa on Jan 1 to:<br>
<br>
- launch ZooBank<br>
- Commemorate the 250th Anniversary of the start of Zoological<br>
Nomenclature<br>
- Create an "exemplar" cybertaxonomy publication<br>
<br>
I was talking this up at <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Bratislava</st1:place></st1:City>,
and things are still on track.<br>
Anyone<br>
who wants to know more about the project, let me know and I'll send a<br>
document describing it in more detail.<br>
<br>
For now, I'll just provide a basic synopsis: This publication will<br>
include<br>
the first 5 zoological names proactively registered in ZooBank. As such,<br>
there will be five ZooBank LSIDs, which I will want to include within<br>
the<br>
publication itself (published in both paper version to comply with ICZN<br>
Code<br>
rules; and as an online PDF version, which 99.9% of people will actually<br>
read). The plan is to have the PDF version marked up as much as<br>
possible,<br>
with taXMLit & TaxonX markup files, SDD files for the character data,<br>
ZooBank LSIDs, Images deposited in MorphBank, links to GenBank records<br>
for<br>
Barcode sequences, links to Museum specimen databases, links to BHL for<br>
literature cited, etc., etc.<br>
<br>
So....this will be a document intended to show what could be possible<br>
with<br>
all this TDWG stuff we've all be working on for all these years -- i.e.,<br>
how<br>
cybertaxonomy could/should be done in the age of the internet.<br>
<br>
Now, the PDF file itself will be rather simple -- a standard PDF file as<br>
per<br>
normal Zootaxa practice -- except in this document, there will be MANY<br>
embedded links that allow point-and-click access to all sorts of online<br>
resources -- each of which will in some way showcase TDWG and TDWG-like<br>
standards.<br>
<br>
A bunch of these links will be LSIDs (e.g., ZooBank LSIDs, plus maybe<br>
others). However, some of them may be other links (DOIs, URLs, etc.).<br>
All<br>
HTTP and other self-resolving links will be pretty straightforward, but<br>
I'm<br>
not sure yet how to embed links associated with the LSIDs.<br>
<br>
Obviously, LSIDs are not, by themselves, completely self-resolving via<br>
most<br>
web browsers, so simply embedding the LSID as a link will not do the<br>
average<br>
user much good. Thus, I'm now thinking of how I can make the LSIDs<br>
"clickable" from the PDF, to allow the cicker/user to be directed to<br>
something meangiful. And that has caused me to think a lot about HTTP<br>
proxies for LSIDs.<br>
<br>
Thus, assuming I have a ZooBank LSID that is<br>
urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234,<br>
how do I represent that as a "clickable" link? One way to do
this would<br>
be<br>
to embed the LSID within the TDWG HTTP proxy:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://lsid.tdwg.org/?urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://lsid.tdwg.org/?urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234</a><br>
<br>
However, what I'm shooting for is to have a document that can, as best<br>
as<br>
possible, withstand the test of time, such that 250 years from now, some<br>
or<br>
all of those embedded links will still work (I know, I know -- they<br>
won't --<br>
but humor me....) I'm a little neverous about simply assuming that the<br>
TDWG<br>
LSID resolver will still be around in 250 years. Besides, 99.9% of<br>
users<br>
will look at the returned RDF and scratch their heads.<br>
<br>
My gut feeling is that LSIDs have a better chance of surviving the<br>
long-term<br>
than URLs do. And following this premise, the LSID<br>
"urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234" will only survive as long as the<br>
authority<br>
"zoobank.org" survives (in theory), so it seems to me a slightly more<br>
appropriate solution would be to build a custom LSID resolver at<br>
zoobank.org, and thereby format the clickable link as:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://zoobank.org/?lsid=urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://zoobank.org/?lsid=urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:1234</a><br>
<br>
Does this make sense to anyone? Am I missing something fundamental<br>
here?<br>
Is there a better way to embed clickable links to LSIDs in a PDF<br>
document?<br>
<br>
I have a bunch of other questions to follow up with, but let's tackle<br>
this<br>
one first.<br>
<br>
Many thanks!!<br>
<br>
Aloha,<br>
Rich<br>
<br>
Richard L. Pyle, PhD<br>
Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences<br>
and Associate Zoologist in Ichthyology<br>
Department of Natural Sciences, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Bishop</st1:PlaceName>
<st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Museum</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">1525 Bernice St.</st1:Street>, <st1:City
w:st="on">Honolulu</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">HI</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">96817</st1:PostalCode></st1:address><br>
Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252<br>
email: <a href="mailto:deepreef@bishopmuseum.org">deepreef@bishopmuseum.org</a><br>
<a href="http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<pre wrap=""><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>tdwg-guid mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:tdwg-guid@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-guid@lists.tdwg.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-guid">http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-guid</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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