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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006>Dear 
all,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>The&nbsp;Phyloinformatics journal shows how 
easy&nbsp;social contracts can fail and formerly trusted archives 
just</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>disappear...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>There are some initiatives which aim to provide 
standards for the preservation and archiving of digital 
contents.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>For example the OAIS reference model (<A 
href="http://public.ccsds.org/publications/archive/650x0b1.pdf">http://public.ccsds.org/publications/archive/650x0b1.pdf</A>) 
which aims</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>to become ISO. Or here in germany the the DINI 
initiative (<A href="http://www.dini.de/">http://www.dini.de/</A>) and the 
NESTOR project</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>(<A 
href="http://www.langzeitarchivierung.de/index.php?newlang=eng">http://www.langzeitarchivierung.de/index.php?newlang=eng</A>).</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>Both german initiatives aim to provide certificates for 
long term archives, I guess similar to the quality 
standard</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>ISO 9001 .</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>It would be very interesting to me if you knew similar 
initiatives from your countries?</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>Today, it is impossible to estimate how good the 
ability of a content provider (including taxonomic databases) 
</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>for real long term archiving really is . Certificates 
could help a lot&nbsp;I think, especially if they would require a 
</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>'</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN class=159350009-29112006>fall back 
strategy' of the candidate archive. Such a strategy could simple be to nominate 
a partner archive</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>which would store the content on their servers in case 
of emergency (and resolve the LSIDs in our case).</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006>best regards, Robert</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006><SPAN 
class=159350009-29112006></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT 
size=2><SPAN class=159350009-29112006>&nbsp;</SPAN>-----Ursprüngliche 
Nachricht-----<BR><B>Von:</B> tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu 
[mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu]<B>Im Auftrag von </B>P. Bryan 
Heidorn<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Dienstag, 28. November 2006 23:14<BR><B>An:</B> 
Richard Pyle<BR><B>Cc:</B> tdwg-guid@mailman.nhm.ku.edu<BR><B>Betreff:</B> Re: 
[Tdwg-guid] Demise of Phyloinformatics journal<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">It 
  is important to inform the Library of Congress and other entities about the 
  special needs of the taxonomic community so that they can put the appropriate 
  mechanisms into place. The&nbsp;library community solution including, academic 
  libraries, LC and its counterparts in other countries do make a fairly 
  survivable system that might indeed survive some major upheavals. The 
  biodiversity community need not go it alone. It is better to share the deeper 
  pockets of nuclear physics, astronomy, and medicine. We have unique needs but 
  we can rely on subsystems put into place for these other sciences.&nbsp;
  <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
  <DIV>Also, currently, going digital does not mean not using paper. For the 
  near future it would be good to have a few paper copies of important documents 
  along with the digital copy. Also, if we have digital copy, at any point in 
  the future, assuming we still have trees to make paper, we can decide 
  to&nbsp;abandon the digital systems and print out what we want. It is not an 
  either/or decision not and will not be in the future either.</DIV>
  <DIV><BR>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>On Nov 28, 2006, at 1:40 PM, Richard Pyle wrote:</DIV><BR 
  class=Apple-interchange-newline>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
    <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I certainly agree with Dave that the technology 
    exists, and I agree with</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Roger that we seem to be on the right path. My 
    comment about it being "a</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">much bigger issue than our community is able to 
    solve" was more along the</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">lines of ensuring persistence for centuries or 
    millenia.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>The Library 
of</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Congress was appropriated $100 million to deal with 
    this issue</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">(<A 
    href="http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/about/index.html">http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/about/index.html</A>), 
    which is a just a bit</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">more than we have access to. The real problem, of 
    course, is that because</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">digital media have existed for only a few decades, 
    we don't have an</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">established track record to say, with adequate 
    confidence, that we "know"</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">how to preserve digital data for centuries or 
    millenia (in the way that some</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">paper-based media have survived for such periods of 
    time).<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>This is why the</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">system along the lines of what we're discussing can 
    only really be thought</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of as a "pilot project".</DIV>
    <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">The fact of the matter is, we don't really need to 
    have confidence that our</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">system is good enough to perservere for 
    centuries.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>We only have to 
    be</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">confident that it will perservere until technology 
    establishes a system that</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">*will* survive for centuries. If we're lucky, that 
    probably will happen</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">within the next few decades.</DIV>
    <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">So...to echo Roger, "the sun is shining and I feel 
    we are heading in the</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">right direction" -- Rumsfeldisms 
    notwithstanding.</DIV>
    <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Aloha,</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Rich</DIV>
    <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Richard L. Pyle, PhD</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>and 
    Associate Zoologist in Ichthyology</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop Museum</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252</DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">email: <A 
    href="mailto:deepreef@bishopmuseum.org">deepreef@bishopmuseum.org</A></DIV>
    <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A 
    href="http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html">http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html</A></DIV>
    <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
    <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
    <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">-----Original Message-----</DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">From: Dave Vieglais [<A 
      href="mailto:vieglais@ku.edu">mailto:vieglais@ku.edu</A>]<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 5:08 PM</DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">To: Richard Pyle</DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Cc: "'\"Döring, Markus\"'"; <A 
      href="mailto:tdwg-guid@mailman.nhm.ku.edu">tdwg-guid@mailman.nhm.ku.edu</A></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Subject: Re: [Tdwg-guid] Demise of 
      Phyloinformatics journal</DIV>
      <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I think such a system is quite well within the 
      grasp of this<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">community- even without any particularly novel 
      new<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">developments.<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>We have a system for unique IDs 
      (LSIDs) which<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">can be assigned to each document (actually each 
      combination<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of object + metadata).<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>Assuming the documents are 
      stored in<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">an environment exposed by a protocol such as OAI 
      (Open<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Archives Initiative), a harvester could easily 
      retrieve<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">copies of documents (actually any objects with 
      IDs).</DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">There's nothing to stop the harvester cache being 
      exposed by<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the same protocol.<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>With a group of these harvester 
      + OAI<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">servers, and no limits on subscriptions then each 
      harvester<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">would have a copy of everything, probably an 
      undesirable outcome.</DIV>
      <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Harvester reach could be restricted by queries 
      such as "all<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">objects of type document" or "all objects 
      published before<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">1999" or any other query supported by the 
      metadata.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>Or,<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">given the availability of one or more indexers, 
      which index<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">all the available OAI services, a query such as 
      "all objects<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">for which there are only 9 copies" could be 
      executed.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>The<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">result would be a list of LSIDs that need to be 
      retrieved by<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the cache.<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>Of course there will be time 
      lags between index<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">and harvester states, so there will likely end up 
      being more<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">than 10 copies of objects per cache, but is that 
      really a problem?</DIV>
      <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">All the pieces necessary for building such a 
      system already<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">exist in the WASABI framework - LSID assignment, 
      OAI server,<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">OAI harvester, indexer, cache.</DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">The only real modification is to adapt the WASABI 
      server to<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">store objects along with their metadata, but this 
      was kind of<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">planned to support media objects.<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>I don't mean to preach<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">WASABIsh here, such a topic has been on my mind 
      for a while<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">(actually distributed object storage, not just 
      documents).</DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">TAPIR and other protocols would probably work 
      just fine as<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">well with some modifications.</DIV>
      <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">It seems pretty simple, but perhaps I'm missing 
      some important pieces?</DIV>
      <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
      <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">cheers,</DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; 
      </SPAN>Dave V.</DIV>
      <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Richard Pyle said the following on 28-11-2006 
      09:05:</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Great article, Markus! Very similar to what I 
        had in mind. <SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I've never<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">visited BitTorrent, but I gather that its 
        structure and<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">function are<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">not altogether different from the original 
        Napster.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>Your<SPAN 
        class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">description<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of a system that monitors available copies of 
        any digital<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">document and<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">automatically ensures that a minimum number of 
        copies are extant is</DIV>
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">*exactly* what I was thinking.<SPAN 
        class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>In my view, there 
        wouldn't<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">be only one<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">"hall monitor" server, but dozens or hundreds 
        (likely<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">correlated with<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">major institutions or hard-core individuals 
        with ample<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">available storage space).</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">And I would probably draw the line for minimum 
        number of copies at<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">closer to 100 or so, and also include 
        algorithms to ensure they are<SPAN 
        class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">adequately distributed on geographic scales. 
        Obviously,<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">GUIDs would be<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">a critical component of such a system.</DIV>
        <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">It's a much bigger issue than our community is 
        able to<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">solve, I think<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">-- but certainly we could implement some pilot 
        projects along these<SPAN 
class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">lines for our own data needs, to see how such a 
        system<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">might work within our context.</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Aloha,</DIV>
        <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Rich</DIV>
        <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">-----Original Message-----</DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">From: <A 
          href="mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu">tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu</A></DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">[<A 
          href="mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu">mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu</A>] 
          On Behalf Of<SPAN 
        class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">"Döring,<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Markus"</DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 5:56 AM</DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">To: <A 
          href="mailto:tdwg-guid@mailman.nhm.ku.edu">tdwg-guid@mailman.nhm.ku.edu</A></DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Subject: Re: [Tdwg-guid] Demise of 
          Phyloinformatics journal</DIV>
          <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Richards post and Napster keyword reminded me 
          of a vague<SPAN 
        class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">idea I had<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">for some time to use P2P networks like 
          bittorrent as an persitent<SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">storage space. You can read about it a bit 
          more closely here:</DIV>
          <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A 
          href="http://www.pywrapper.com/markus/blog/2006/using-bittorrent-as-">http://www.pywrapper.com/markus/blog/2006/using-bittorrent-as-</A></DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">a-persistent-storage-space/</DIV>
          <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Don't take it as a real proposal, but I like 
          the general<SPAN 
        class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">idea if it.<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">It might even have been done already within 
          the GRID<SPAN 
        class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">community. But<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">it conveys the original internet idea of 
          distributing<SPAN 
        class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">resources and<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">minimizing impact if a nodes gets lost.</DIV>
          <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">A quite nice discussion by the way.</DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Markus</DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">--</DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>Markus Döring</DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>Botanic Garden and Botanical 
          Museum Berlin Dahlem,<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; 
          </SPAN>Dept. of<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Biodiversity Informatics<SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>Königin-Luise-Str. 6-8, 
          D-14191 Berlin</DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>Phone: +49 30 83850-284</DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>Email: <A 
          href="mailto:m.doering@bgbm.org">m.doering@bgbm.org</A></DIV>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>URL: <A 
          href="http://www.bgbm.org/BioDivInf/">http://www.bgbm.org/BioDivInf/</A></DIV>
          <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
          <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">-----Original Message-----</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">From: <A 
            href="mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu">tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu</A></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">[<A 
            href="mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu">mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu</A>] 
            On Behalf<SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Of Richard<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Pyle</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Sent: Sonntag, 26. November 2006 
20:42</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">To: 'P. Bryan Heidorn'; <A 
            href="mailto:tdwg-guid@mailman.nhm.ku.edu">tdwg-guid@mailman.nhm.ku.edu</A>; 
            'Taxacom'</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Subject: Re: [Tdwg-guid] Demise of 
            Phyloinformatics journal</DIV>
            <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
            <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
            <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I only just now read Bryan Heidorn's 
            excellent post on this topic<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">(below). One thing I would add is that the 
            nature of the</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">internet and</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">electronic information allow us 
            opportunities to ensure</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">permanence and</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">access that were either impossible, or 
            prohibitively</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">expensive even a</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">decade ago.<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>Imagine, for example, an 
            internet protocol</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">that allowed</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">both institutions and individuals to "plug 
            in" and expose their<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">digitial catalogs of stored electronic 
            publications (and other</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">resources) such that the whereabouts of 
            literally thousands</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of copies</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of every electronic publication could be 
            known to anyone.<SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">The system I</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">envision is somewhat of a cross between 
            existing protocols for<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">interlibrary loan, and the original 
            Napster.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>Certainly 
            all</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">sorts of</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">copyright issues need to be sorted out, but 
            these are short-term<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">problems (less than a century), compared to 
            the long-term</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">(multi-millenia?) issue of information 
            persistence. The point is,<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">knowing the whereabaouts of extant copies 
            of digital documents,<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">coupled with the amazing ease and low cost 
            of duplication</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">and global</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">dissemination (not to mention plummeting 
            costs of</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">electronic storage</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">media), would virtually guarantee the 
            long-term persistence</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of digital</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">information.</DIV>
            <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Any system is, of course, vulnerable to the 
            collapse (or major</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">perturbation) of human civilization.<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>And the electronic<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">translator<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">problem I alluded to in an earlier post 
            cannot be<SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">ignored.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; 
      </SPAN>But to<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">pretend that the potential doesn't exist or 
            shouldn't be actively<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">pursued is pure folly, in my opinion.</DIV>
            <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Aloha,</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Rich</DIV>
            <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Richard L. Pyle, PhD</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Database Coordinator for Natural 
            Sciences</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; 
            </SPAN>and Associate Zoologist in Ichthyology Department of 
            Natural<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Sciences, Bishop Museum</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252</DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">email: <A 
            href="mailto:deepreef@bishopmuseum.org">deepreef@bishopmuseum.org</A></DIV>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A 
            href="http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html">http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html</A></DIV>
            <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
            <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
            <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">-----Original Message-----</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">From: <A 
              href="mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu">tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu</A></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">[<A 
              href="mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu">mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu</A>] 
              On Behalf Of P.<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Bryan Heidorn</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 8:22 
              AM</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">To: <A 
              href="mailto:tdwg-guid@mailman.nhm.ku.edu">tdwg-guid@mailman.nhm.ku.edu</A>; 
              Taxacom</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Subject: Re: [Tdwg-guid] Demise of 
              Phyloinformatics journal</DIV>
              <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">The problem and solution has less to do 
              with the Internet</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">and more</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">to do with institutional longevity.</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">The permanence of paper has less to do 
              with acid free</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">paper and more</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">to do with the relative permanence of the 
              institutions<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">that house<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">them. Most paper documents over a hundred 
              years old have</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">been lost</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">forever because there were no permanent 
              institutions to<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">hold them<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">until the advent of public and academic 
              libraries. Papers in<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">individual scientists collections are 
              discarded when they</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">die. War</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">and economic upheavals left paper in rain 
              and fire. It is</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">foolhardy</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">to assume that what is on paper is 
              safe.</DIV>
              <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">We know that dissemination of information 
              in electronic</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">form is must</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">more economical than paper dissemination. 
              The issue is</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">development</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of proper institutions with adequate 
              stable funding to</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">develop and</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">maintain copies into "perpetuity".</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Commercial publishers, are clearly not 
              the answer for</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">preservation.<SPAN 
          class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Corporations and publishers go out of 
              business all the</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">time. It is</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">only because libraries kept paper copies 
              that we still have a<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">record.</DIV>
              <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Digital preservation and access problems 
              exist for all</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">sciences and</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">government documents so there is no need 
              to the biodiversity<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">community to go it alone on this. We are 
              just in the<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">beginning of<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the digital publishing history and have 
              not yet</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">established adequate</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">preservation mechanisms within libraries 
              to handle data<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">curation,<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">preservation and access in all the 
              situations where it is</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">necessary.</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">There are projects underway world wide to 
              address this issue.<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">In the United States the Library of 
              Congress The<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">National Digital<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Information Infrastructure and 
              Preservation Program http://<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">www.digitalpreservation.gov/ is one 
              example. The U.S.</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Government agency the Institute of Museum 
              and Library Services</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">(IMLS) http:// <A 
              href="http://www.imls.gov">www.imls.gov</A>/ began grant programs 
              to train<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">librarians and museum curators in digital 
              librarianship and most<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">recently in digital data curation<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A 
              href="http://www.imls.gov/applicants/grants/">http://www.imls.gov/applicants/grants/</A></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">21centuryLibrarian.shtm is addressing the 
              education issues.<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">The University of North 
            Carolina</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A 
            href="http://www.ils.unc.edu/digccurr2007/">http://www.ils.unc.edu/digccurr2007/</A></DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">papers.html and the University of 
              Illinois</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A 
          href="http://sci.lis.uiuc.edu">http://sci.lis.uiuc.edu</A>/</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">DCEP/ have begun working on best 
              practices and education.<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">This week</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">say the successful Data Curation 
              Conference (DCC) in Glasgow,<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Scotland <A 
              href="http://www.dcc.ac.uk/events/dcc-2006/">http://www.dcc.ac.uk/events/dcc-2006/</A>. 
              DCC will</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">be running</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">"Long-term Curation and Preservation of 
              Journals"</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">31 January 2007. (as an aside, at DCC 
              conference I saw</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">results of a</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">survey in "Attitudes and aspirations in a 
              diverse world:<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the Project</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">StORe perspective on scientific 
              repositories" Graham Pryor,<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">University of Edinburgh <A 
              href="http://www.dcc.ac.uk/events/dcc-2006/">http://www.dcc.ac.uk/events/dcc-2006/</A></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">programme/presentations/g-pryor.ppt that 
              more scientists trusted<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">publishers to save their digital 
              documents than their home<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">institutions and libraries! It is clear 
              that scientists are<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">generally not trained in economics and 
              that the information<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">technology management of many 
              institutions must be abysmal!</DIV>
              <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">We need something like to 5 institution 
              rule for distribution to<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">apply for digital documents. Digital 
              documents need to be</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">replicated</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">as well for both access and 
              preservation.</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Institutions like the Internet Archive 
              help with some of</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the current</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">problems.</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Institutional Repositories (IR) are 
              another. Many</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">universities and</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">libraries world wide are beginning these. 
              It is authors'</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">responsibility<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>to deposit their 
              publications in these</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">institutions</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">and to support their creation. JSTOR and 
              other institutions also<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">exist. They all have their weaknesses and 
              additional research,<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">development and funding is needed to 
              adequately address</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the issues.</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Also, all journals need to be managed 
              using good data curation<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">principles but al too often the 
              publishers in spite of best<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">intentions are not educated in such 
              issues.</DIV>
              <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Digital publishing of taxonomic 
              literature are not the</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">full answer</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">for current poor dissemination of 
              taxonomic literature.<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">The deposit</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of a published name in five institutions 
              is a</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">preservation rule, not</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">a dissemination rule.<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>We hurt science and 
              human health</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">is we do not</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">at the same time address the information 
              access issue. <SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">We need to</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">aspire to better dissemination and 
              preservation. Electronic<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">publishing will help but only if 
              appropriate institutions</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">in place.</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">On the smaller issue, DOIs for 
              publications, electronic</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">or paper is</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">a no-brainer. URLs were never designed to 
              be permanent.<SPAN 
            class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">URLs were<SPAN 
      class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">designed to be reused and be 
              flexible.</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">With DOIs we can place the same paper in 
              multiple digital or<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">physical locations and reliably find 
              copies.</DIV>
              <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Bryan Heidorn</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">--</DIV>
              <DIV 
          style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV 
      style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV 
      style="MARGIN: 0px">--------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>P. Bryan 
              Heidorn<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; &nbsp; 
              </SPAN>Graduate School of Library and<SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Information</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Science</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN><A 
              href="mailto:pheidorn@uiuc.edu">pheidorn@uiuc.edu</A> <SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; </SPAN>University of Illinois 
              at<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Urbana-Champaign MC-493</DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>(V)217/ 
              244-7792<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; &nbsp; </SPAN>501 
              East Daniel St., Champaign, IL <SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">61820-6212</DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN 
              class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>(F)217/ 
              244-3302<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp; &nbsp; </SPAN><A 
              href="https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/pheidorn/www">https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/pheidorn/www</A></DIV>
              <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
              <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">On Nov 24, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Renato De 
              Giovanni wrote:</DIV>
              <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Rod,</DIV>
                <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Thanks for sharing with us the 
                information. I already</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">imagined that</DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">things like that could happen, but it's 
                always better to</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">argue having</DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">real examples.</DIV>
                <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Anyway, just in case someone reading 
                the story decides to</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">blame URLs,</DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I just wanted to say that in my opinion 
                the main issue</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">here is not</DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the technology or the GUID format being 
                used. It's the</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">business model</DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">and the management strategy.</DIV>
                <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I can easily imagine similar things 
                happening to DOIs,</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">LSIDs or other</DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">kinds of issued GUIDs if the 
                institution(s) behind them simply<SPAN 
                class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">disappear.</DIV>
                <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Best Regards,</DIV>
                <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Renato</DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">--</DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">IT Researcher</DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">CRIA - Reference Center on 
                Environmental Information<SPAN 
                class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A 
                href="http://www.cria.org.br">http://www.cria.org.br</A>/</DIV>
                <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">On 24 Nov 2006 at 13:37, Roderic Page 
                wrote:</DIV>
                <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">The Open Access web-only journal 
                  "Phyloinformatics"<SPAN 
                  class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">seems to have</DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">disappeared, with the Internet 
                  address http://<SPAN 
                  class=Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">www.phyloinformatics.org now up for 
                  sale. This means the</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
            <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">articles</DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">have just disappeared!</DIV>
                  <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">There weren't many papers published, 
                  but some were</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">interesting and</DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">have</DIV>
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">been cited in the mainstream 
                  literature.</DIV>
                  <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">This also illustrates the problems 
                  with linking to digital</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">resources</DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">using URLs, as opposed to identifiers 
                  such as DOIs. With</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
              <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the loss of</DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the domain name, this journal has 
                  effectively died.</DIV>
                  <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">A sobering lesson...</DIV>
                  <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Regards</DIV>
                  <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                  <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Rod</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
                <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
                <DIV 
                style="MARGIN: 0px">_______________________________________________</DIV>
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            style="MARGIN: 0px">_______________________________________________</DIV>
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            href="http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdw">http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdw</A>&gt; 
            g-guid</DIV>
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          <DIV 
          style="MARGIN: 0px">_______________________________________________</DIV>
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        style="MARGIN: 0px">_______________________________________________</DIV>
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  <DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span 
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  style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">--&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">--------------------------------------------------------------------</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">&nbsp; P. Bryan Heidorn&nbsp; &nbsp; Graduate School 
  of Library and Information Science</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">&nbsp; <A 
  href="mailto:pheidorn@uiuc.edu">pheidorn@uiuc.edu</A> &nbsp; University of 
  Illinois at Urbana-Champaign MC-493</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">&nbsp; (V)217/ 244-7792&nbsp; &nbsp; 501 East Daniel 
  St., Champaign, IL&nbsp; 61820-6212</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">&nbsp; (F)217/ 244-3302 &nbsp; &nbsp;</SPAN><FONT 
  class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><A 
  href="https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/pheidorn/www">https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/pheidorn/www</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">&nbsp; Online Calendar: <A 
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  <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">&nbsp; Visit the Biobrowser Web site at <A 
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