[tdwg-tag] Blog: UUIDs may be Dangerous

"Markus Döring (GBIF)" mdoering at gbif.org
Mon Nov 24 10:42:19 CET 2008


> How do we get from using URLs to having a central service?  If we  
> have a central service then we don't need to use URLs (we could use  
> Handle, LSID or even UUID or all of them). The service is just a  
> mapping from string to URL.

in order to facilitate stable URLs in a world of changing domains.  
Redirection to relocated services can be done by institutions, but  
changing domains are still a problem we can solve with a central  
redirection service

Markus




>
>
> If we do advocate use of URLs we need guidelines on how to use them.  
> They may be protocol dependent but they should be independent of  
> other technologies. Should they be short? Should the be recognizable  
> as permanent? Should they do HTTP Range 14 compliant 303 redirects?  
> What is the return type? Content negotiation? etc etc
>
> How about a central service that you can register any string with?  
> This could run in parallel with an identifier service.....hmmmm?
>
> BTW: It is funny that my blog on UUIDs got us to talking about not  
> using LSIDs!
>
> Roger
>
>
> On 24 Nov 2008, at 08:11, Roderic Page wrote:
>
>> And the fourth question is, at what point in a setting up a central
>> service that registers and redirects do we realise that we're
>> reinventing the wheel and take a hard look at Handles/DOIs?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Rod
>>
>> On 21 Nov 2008, at 14:39, Markus Döring (GBIF) wrote:
>>
>>> It's funny that nearly all of us consider stable URLs as the best
>>> option by now, but we still decided to stay with LSIDs during TDWG.
>>> The main argument for LSIDs during the TAG meeting was indeed a  
>>> social
>>> one: they look more stable, especially in printed publications.
>>> But I have to support Gregor in that initial trust in stable URLs is
>>> achieved by making the URL look stable. Finally it boils down to a
>>> management problem, no matter if we use LSIDs, PURLs or whatever  
>>> other
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> To get forward with this everlasting discussion:
>>> Is there anyone left who would feel bad about moving to stable URLs?
>>>
>>> And as a second question, should we have a central domain that
>>> registers services and redirects to the resolving service, so that
>>> people can move their service. Or do we trust the community to keep
>>> their URLs stable themselves?
>>>
>>> And if we prefer a central service, should we just use DNS and  
>>> assign
>>> subdomains for the individual services, e.g. http://rbgk13.tdwg.id/543-544-cfjf3f667
>>> or assign paths within the URL to services, e.g. http://guid.tdwg.org/rbgk13/543-544-cfjf3f667
>>> ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Markus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 20, 2008, at 11:09 PM, Gregor Hagedorn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kevin writes
>>>>> - ie they cannot be resolved using default HTTP resolution.  The
>>>>> idea of
>>>>> using the http proxy version of the LSIDs is a good way to get
>>>>> around this,
>>>>> but this does have some drawbacks:
>>>>>
>>>>> -  1st you really need everyone to agree to use it everywhere,
>>>>> which is a
>>>>> bit difficult considering it is not at all part of the LSID
>>>>> standard, and we
>>>>> struggle to get "everyone" to do anything
>>>>>
>>>>> - 2nd, it seems very much like a hack - you might as well just use
>>>>> permanent
>>>>> http urls - ie the main advantage of LSIDs in this case is the
>>>>> "encouraging
>>>>> a degree of thought before making URIs publically available".  But
>>>>> we don't
>>>>> really need to pick up the whole LSID overhead just to achieve  
>>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> 3rd: the system is complicated and it is difficult to guarantee  
>>>> that
>>>> the sequence of reciprocal references is correct and in the right
>>>> order and place. I believe you would need special validator tools  
>>>> to
>>>> find errors in the system.
>>>>
>>>> And, most relevantly, I believe it will exclude many from
>>>> participation, because the complexity is a bit scary.
>>>>
>>>>> So it seems to me like good old Plain Old URLs are just great!   :
>>>>> -)
>>>>> Or at least the suggestion of REST styled, permanent HTTP URLs as
>>>>> GUIDs ???
>>>>
>>>> I fully agree. I believe LSIDs never were meant to be a technical
>>>> solution, but rather a technical wedge to hammer in to achieve  
>>>> social
>>>> change. All the LSIDs really promise are different management
>>>> practices.
>>>>
>>>> As argued in http://wiki.tdwg.org/twiki/bin/view/GUID/CommunityPracticesForHttp-basedGUIDs
>>>> I think it is sensible to agree on a community agreed mechanism to
>>>> keep some URLs more stable than others. That could be URLs  
>>>> containing
>>>> UUIDs, but I would argue for a social convention to agree on a
>>>> recognizable string marking URLs that should be kept stable as long
>>>> as
>>>> possible and at least not re-assigned. There would be little harm  
>>>> to
>>>> have a couple of such naming conventions, including e.g. non- 
>>>> english
>>>> localizations, but one could be:
>>>>
>>>> x.y.net/stable-id/something/12317982
>>>>
>>>> Gregor
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>> Dr. Gregor Hagedorn
>>>> Heinrich-Seidel-Str. 2
>>>> 12167 Berlin
>>>> skype: g.hagedorn
>>>>
>>>> This message is sent on a personal basis and does not constitute an
>>>> activity of the German Federal Government or its research
>>>> institutions.
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>>>
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>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> Roderic Page
>> Professor of Taxonomy
>> DEEB, FBLS
>> Graham Kerr Building
>> University of Glasgow
>> Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>>
>> Email: r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk
>> Tel: +44 141 330 4778
>> Fax: +44 141 330 2792
>> AIM: rodpage1962 at aim.com
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1112517192
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdmpage
>> Blog: http://iphylo.blogspot.com
>> Home page: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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