[tdwg-guid] Bibliographic metadata

Chuck Miller Chuck.Miller at mobot.org
Thu Nov 29 19:54:09 CET 2007


Rod,

Although DOIs are really great and should be added by those who can, I
think we have not choice but to accept the bibliographic data that
exists and get on with collecting it, messy or not.

I don't know that I agree with your hypothesis: "...without an external
GUID for the publication I think nomenclators will be of limited use.
Merely reproducing bibliographic metadata is ultimately an exercise in
pain, given that most metadata contains errors or omissions..."

Is it true that *most* bibliographic metadata contains errors or
omissions, or would it be true to say that *some* or *more than we'd
like* metadata contain errors?  And is it true that errors or omissions
make nomenclators "of limited use"?  I would agree that errors/omissions
would surely limit use in some way, but I don't know that the magnitude
of it rises to the level of declaring nomenclators "of limited use".
Maybe it's just a semantic difference. 

I think we have to accept that bibliographic metadata with errors or
omissions is better than *no* bibliographic metadata and a nomenclator
with some errors is better than *no* nomenclator. And, we need to
continue to appeal for the *addition* of DOIs and such by those who can
add them.

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: tdwg-guid-bounces at lists.tdwg.org
[mailto:tdwg-guid-bounces at lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Roderic Page
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:26 PM
To: Richard Pyle
Cc: tdwg-guid at lists.tdwg.org
Subject: Re: [tdwg-guid] TDWG LSID Resolver broken?

Dear Richard,

Quick comments on the metadata the LSID serves:

1. The dates in the TaxonName:publication section are a bit of a mess  
(one date lacks a year, and "11/26/1998 12:00:00 AM" is not an ISO  
standard date, it is also open to ambiguity given that the US writes  
month/day/year whereas Europeans write day/month/year). I think  
YYYY-MM-DD is the way to go to avoid major headaches. I've blogged  
about the mess DiGIR providers have created by not using ISO standard  
dates.

2. There's no journal name or ISSN so we don't know where this was  
published. I guess one could get this via the parent citation resource,

but if you have all the other metadata included in the RDF, why not the

journal?

3. The article in question has a DOI, hence it would be nice to link to

that (doi:10.1007/BF02725185). I know you're working towards this, but  
without an external GUID for the publication I think nomenclators will  
be of limited use. Merely reproducing bibliographic metadata is  
ultimately an exercise in pain, given that most metadata contains  
errors or omissions, and the poor user has to dela with this when they  
try and track down the reference (or, more interestingly, try and link  
the literature together).

Regards

Rod




On 29 Nov 2007, at 18:04, Richard Pyle wrote:

> Thanks Rod,
>
> The two LSIDs in your links are truncated due to line wrap in my  
> original
> message.  They should be:
>
> urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:20889795-7EC7-42F3-A4C3-D1D97704A609
>
> urn:lsid:bishopmuseum.org:tnu:20889795-7EC7-42F3-A4C3-D1D97704A609
>
> Both have essentially identical WSDL data -- though it might be cached

> still
> from yesterday.
>
> WSDL looks mostly the same as IPNI:
>
> http://zoobank.bishopmuseum.org/authority/?lsid=urn:lsid:zoobank.org: 
> act:208
> 89795-7EC7-42F3-A4C3-D1D97704A609
>
> http://nsdb.bishopmuseum.org/authority/?lsid=urn:lsid: 
> bishopmuseum.org:tnu:2
> 0889795-7EC7-42F3-A4C3-D1D97704A609
>
> No doubt both of these will be truncated/line-wrapped as well....
>
> Sally:  might be DNS, but the DNS record hasn't changed for the
ZooBank
> service since it was originally created, and I know it was working  
> through
> the TDWG resolver back before/during Bratislava.
>
> Lee:  I've been pestering Kevin about other issues I ran into setting

> up the
> new nsdb LSID resolver, but I figured that the problem was with the  
> TDWG
> resolver service, since Rod's tester seems to work fine on both (or am

> I
> missing something about your tester, Rod?)  But now that I see that  
> the nsdb
> LSIDs resolve through the TDWG site fine, I'm beginning to suspect the
> problem is with IIS on the ZooBank server.  The Code really is  
> identical (if
> anything, it should be broken on the nsdb version, not the zoobank  
> version).
>
> Hmmm....
>
> Many thanks for all the feedback so far!
>
> Aloha,
> Rich
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> 	From: Roderic Page [mailto:r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk]
> 	Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:57 PM
> 	To: Richard Pyle
> 	Cc: tdwg-guid at lists.tdwg.org
> 	Subject: Re: [tdwg-guid] TDWG LSID Resolver broken?
> 	
> 	
> 	Rich,
>
> 	The authority WSDL looks to be empty. I can't get either LSIDs
to
> work now with my tester. If you look at
>
> 	
> http://nsdb.bishopmuseum.org/authority/?lsid=urn:lsid: 
> bishopmuseum.org:tnu:2
> 0889795-7EC7-42F3-A4C3-D
>
> 	or
>
> 	
> http://zoobank.bishopmuseum.org/authority/?lsid=urn:lsid:zoobank.org: 
> act:208
> 89795-7EC7-42F3-A4C3-D1D977
>
> 	you'll see a pretty empty WSDL file. Compare this to, say,
IPNI's:
>
> 	
> http://www.ipni.org/authority/authority?lsid=urn:lsid:ipni.org:names: 
> 2001272
> 8-1:1.1
>
> 	I suspect there's a problem with Zoobank's code, and it might
have
> taken a while to appear as my tester caches the WSDLs for 24 hours.
>
> 	Regards
>
> 	Rod
>
>
>
>
>
> 	On 28 Nov 2007, at 23:27, Richard Pyle wrote:
>
>
>
> 		VERY strange!
>
> 		This LSID does not work:
>
> 	
> http://lsid.tdwg.org/urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:20889795-7EC7-42F3-A4C3-

> D1D977
> 		04A609
>
> 		But this one does:
>
> 	
> http://lsid.tdwg.org/urn:lsid:bishopmuseum.org:tnu:20889795-7EC7-42F3-

> A4C3-D
> 		1D97704A609
>
>
> 		Even though these are the exact same record from the
exact
> same database,
> 		and the latter resolver was created from the exact same
> source code as the
> 		former.
>
> 		Both seem to work fine on Rod's tester page, except the
> latter has one
> 		failure (5a), while in the former it is just a warning.
>
> 		Go figure....
>
> 		Rich
>
> 		________________________________
>
> 		From: Paul Kirk [mailto:p.kirk at cabi.org]
> 		Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:57 AM
> 		To: Richard Pyle
> 		Subject: RE: [tdwg-guid] TDWG LSID Resolver broken?
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		Hi Rich,
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		works OK for IF LSIDs
>
> 		
> 		
>
>
http://lsid.tdwg.org/urn:lsid:indexfungorum.org:names:296755
> 	
> <http://lsid.tdwg.org/urn:lsid:indexfungorum.org:names:296755>
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		Cheers,
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		Paul
>
> 		________________________________
>
> 		From: tdwg-guid-bounces at lists.tdwg.org on behalf of
Richard
> Pyle
> 		Sent: Wed 28/11/2007 21:52
> 		To: tdwg-guid at lists.tdwg.org
> 		Subject: [tdwg-guid] TDWG LSID Resolver broken?
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		
> 		
>
>
> 		Hi All,
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		I'm testing the ZooBank LSID resolver, and I can't seem
to
> get any
> 		of my
> 		LSIDs to work with the TDWG LSID resolver
> (http://lsid.tdwg.org/)
> 		They used
> 		to work a couple months ago, but now they don't.
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		For example:
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 	
> urn:lsid:zoobank.org:act:20889795-7EC7-42F3-A4C3-D1D97704A609
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		This works fine on Rod's Tester site:
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		http://linnaeus.zoology.gla.ac.uk/~rpage/lsid/tester/
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		Any ideas???
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		Thanks,
> 		Rich
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		Richard L. Pyle, PhD
> 		Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences
> 		and Associate Zoologist in Ichthyology
> 		Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop Museum
> 		1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817
> 		Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252
> 		email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
> 		http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		
> 		
>
> 		
> 		
>
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> 		P Think Green - don't print this email unless you really
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>
> 		
> 		
>
> 	
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>
> 		----------------------------------------
> 	Professor Roderic D. M. Page
> 	Editor, Systematic Biology
> 	DEEB, IBLS
> 	Graham Kerr Building
> 	University of Glasgow
> 	Glasgow G12 8QP
> 	United Kingdom
>
> 	Phone: +44 141 330 4778
> 	Fax: +44 141 330 2792
> 	email: r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk
> 	web: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html
> 	iChat: aim://rodpage1962
> 	reprints: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/pubs.html
>
> 	Subscribe to Systematic Biology through the Society of
Systematic
> 	Biologists Website: http://systematicbiology.org
> 	Search for taxon names:
> http://darwin.zoology.gla.ac.uk/~rpage/portal/
> 	Find out what we know about a species: http://ispecies.org
> 	Rod's rants on phyloinformatics: http://iphylo.blogspot.com
> 	Rod's rants on ants: http://semant.blogspot.com
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------
Professor Roderic D. M. Page
Editor, Systematic Biology
DEEB, IBLS
Graham Kerr Building
University of Glasgow
Glasgow G12 8QP
United Kingdom

Phone:    +44 141 330 4778
Fax:      +44 141 330 2792
email:    r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk
web:      http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html
iChat:    aim://rodpage1962
reprints: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/pubs.html

Subscribe to Systematic Biology through the Society of Systematic
Biologists Website:  http://systematicbiology.org
Search for taxon names: http://darwin.zoology.gla.ac.uk/~rpage/portal/
Find out what we know about a species: http://ispecies.org
Rod's rants on phyloinformatics: http://iphylo.blogspot.com
Rod's rants on ants: http://semant.blogspot.com

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