Hi Bob,<div><br></div><div><meta charset="utf-8"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">I thought it might be useful to elaborate on the geoareas.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">My hope is that these could be incorporated into the DarwinCore so that an Area would look something like this.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><meta charset="utf-8"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: x-small; "><div>
<dwc:Area about="geo:41.53000000,-70.67000000;u=100"></div><div class="im" style="color: rgb(80, 0, 80); "><div> <rdf:type resource="<a href="http://purl.org/dc/terms/Location" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); ">http://purl.org/dc/terms/Location</a>"/></div>
</div><div> <dwc:georeferenceMethod resource="<a href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#GeoMethod_GoogleMaps" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); ">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#GeoMethod_GoogleMaps</a>"></div>
<div> <dwc_area:areaWithInFeature rdf:resource="<a href="http://sws.geonames.org/4929772/" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); ">http://sws.geonames.org/4929772/</a>"/></div><div> <wdrs:describedby rdf:resource="<a href="http://my_organization.com/occurrence/123.rdf" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); ">http://my_organization.com/occurrence/123.rdf</a>"/></div>
<div></dwc:Area></div></span></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">The <a href="http://ietf.org/" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); ">ietf.org</a> came up with the following proposal for dealing with location data.</div>
<div class="im" style="color: rgb(80, 0, 80); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><div><br></div><div><a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); ">http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870</a></div>
<div><br></div></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); "></a>What I am proposing is that we incorporate a subset of this into the DarwinCore.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">That is the latitude and longitude and a uncertainty in meters (radius)</div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">For now Virtuoso does not understand that this is a mappable thing so I still include the regular geo:lat and geo:long in my mapping examples.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">OK, so what is the main advantage?</div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">If I create URI's for insect collection areas in my namespace (<a style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); ">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/#####)</a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">And Steve has plant collections from those same geographic locations that you identify in your namespace (<a style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); ">http://bioimages.org/#####)</a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Our two datasets, about the same place, are not linked.</div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">But if Steve marks up his data with the geoarea <span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: x-small; "><dwc:Area resource="geo:41.53000000,-70.67000000;u=100"> </span>it would be possible for a consuming service to see what observations have identical locations or overlap.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">A link back to the RDF that makes a statement about a particular geoarea is included using the <b>wdrs</b> vocabulary. </div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">This allows a consumer to find the original RDF that contained statements about a particular geoarea. (provenance)</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Does this make sense?</div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">It is likely that what I am proposing will need to be tweaked in someway that I have not anticipated. </div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">I would like it them to still work as a subset of the more complicated <a href="http://ietf.org/" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); ">ietf.org</a> proposal.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">That is tools and services that understand the <a href="http://ietf.org">ietf.org</a> standard will be able to consume the geoarea's.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">This already work as urn's in a triple/quadstore, allowing occurrences tied to the same GPS reading to be linked together.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">If these catch on I suspect Virtuoso and others will start supporting them so that entities like <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: x-small; ">"geo:41.53000000,-70.67000000;u=100" </span>are seen as mappable things and processed accordingly.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">This does not offer everything that PointRadiusSpatialFit, <span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">coordinateUncertaintyInMeters provides but I think that these areas are more efficient, easier for people to understand and more likely to be adopted. I think we should keep </span>PointRadiusSpatialFit, <span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">coordinateUncertaintyInMeters in the DarwinCore for those who want to use them.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Standardizing on some set of decimal points makes the standard easier for producers to implement, and the areas easier to compare as simple strings and urn's.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">The current ontology is here and I am open to having it tweaked and improved.</span></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area.owl">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area.owl</a><br>
</span></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">OntDoc <a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area_doc/index.html">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area_doc/index.html</a></span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">* I was thinking that it might make sense to add support for linking to Yahoo Placefinder's </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 50, 51); font-family: Arial; ">Where On Earth ID (WOEID) </span>in addition to Geonames</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "> <a href="http://developer.yahoo.com/geo/placefinder/">http://developer.yahoo.com/geo/placefinder/</a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Respectfully,</div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
<meta charset="utf-8">- Pete<div></div></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></div></span><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Bob Morris <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com">morris.bob@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Ah, well, the point I was raising was only about geo as a URI scheme, the subject of the now adopted IETF RFC 5870. To my mind this raises several distinguishable questions (whose answers may not be independent):</font><div>
<font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">1. What mappings are there to other georeferencing schemes with richer semantics? RFC 5870 mentions offers a non-normative one to parts of GML. Pete and you seem to be discussing possible mappings to DwC. At the very least, I would agree with any subtext in that discussion that such a mapping and best practices for its use be the subject of a TDWG applicability statement or other non-normative document. </font></div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">2. The questions implicit in a recent posting of Steve Baskauf: </font></div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">a. To the extent that LOD or other uses of RDF require or urge an http URI, what provides the mapping of the now approved IANA geo URI scheme to the IANA http URI scheme, and what should the http service status values be? (Maybe service status is a separate question. But LOD as used seems to depend in practice on conventions about http as a service protocol, not just as a URI scheme.)</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">b. What defines the (semantics of the) dereferencing of a geo URI? <a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870#section-5" target="_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870#section-5</a> is rather spare on this point, but has the warning:</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">"<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">Currently, just one operation on a 'geo' URI is defined - location</span></font></div>
<pre style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> dereference: in that operation, a client dereferences the URI by
extracting the geographical coordinates from the URI path component
<geo-path>. Further use of those coordinates (and the uncertainty
value from <uval>) is then up to the application processing the URI,
and might depend on the context of the URI."</font></pre><pre style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></pre><pre style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre style="font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'Times New Roman'">Bob</pre>
<pre style="font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'Times New Roman'"><br></pre><pre style="font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'Times New Roman'"><br></pre>
<div><br></div><div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 11:05 AM, John Wieczorek <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tuco@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">tuco@berkeley.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The number of digits given is definitely is not a good substitution<br>
for this for many reasons, just one of which is that the the original<br>
may have been captured in a different coordinate system (such as<br>
degrees decimal minutes - the most precise coordinate system other<br>
than UTM or other meter-based systems when recording data from a GPS)<br>
and then converted to decimal degrees where the number of significant<br>
digits then becomes meaningless.<br>
<br>
Happily, the Darwin Core also has a dwc:coordinatePrecision term<br>
(<a href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#coordinatePrecision" target="_blank">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#coordinatePrecision</a>), which<br>
can say explicitly what the level of precision is in the coordinates<br>
given. The dwc:coordinateUncertaintyInMeters<br>
(<a href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#coordinateUncertaintyInMeters" target="_blank">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#coordinateUncertaintyInMeters</a>)<br>
is supposed to account for all sources of uncertainty in the<br>
coordinates given, including GPS accuracy and coordinate precision.<br>
<br>
For the sake of completeness, there are the terms<br>
dwc:pointRadiusSpatialFit<br>
(<a href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#pointRadiusSpatialFit" target="_blank">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#pointRadiusSpatialFit</a>) to<br>
capture analytically how well the point-radius given matches the<br>
actual uncertainty of the coordinates given (in case someone<br>
artificially adds uncertainty), the dwc:georeferenceProtocol<br>
(<a href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#georeferenceProtocol" target="_blank">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#georeferenceProtocol</a>) to<br>
explain the method used to georeference, and the<br>
dwc:dataGeneralizations<br>
(<a href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#dataGeneralizations" target="_blank">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#dataGeneralizations</a>) to<br>
explain what was done to the georeference post-facto to obscure it.<br>
<div><div></div><div><br>
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Peter DeVries <<a href="mailto:pete.devries@gmail.com" target="_blank">pete.devries@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi Bob,<br>
> Yes an estimate of the precision / extent should be recorded by the original<br>
> observer.<br>
> This has been repeated several times and it is interesting that even TDWG<br>
> did not incorporate this into their data collection.<br>
> What I was proposing was a specific extension to the ietf proposal for<br>
> occurrence records.<br>
> It adds something very similar to pointRadiusSpatialFit to a latitude and<br>
> longitude.<br>
> By standardizing on the significant digits we gain something even before<br>
> there is general software support for this standard.<br>
> That records with "geo:41.53000000,-70.67000000;u=100" are an equivalent<br>
> URN, while.<br>
> "geo:41.53000000,-70.67000000;u=100" and "geo:41.53,-70.67;u=100" are not<br>
> That allows those records to be linked within a triple or quadstore.<br>
> As in this earlier example:<br>
> Here is a browsable view of one of the<br>
> areas <a href="http://bit.ly" target="_blank">bit.ly</a> <a href="http://bit.ly/hBtVFL" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/hBtVFL</a><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://lsd.taxonconcept.org/describe/?url=geo:41.53000000,-70.67000000;u%3D100" target="_blank">http://lsd.taxonconcept.org/describe/?url=geo:41.53000000,-70.67000000;u%3D100</a><br>
> Without doing anything other than standardizing on the number of digits,<br>
> occurrences attached to the same GPS reading are linked in both a triple<br>
> store and a google search.<br>
> Where as software needs to be written that<br>
> interprets "geo:41.53000000,-70.67000000;u=100"<br>
> and "geo:41.53,-70.67;u=100" as equivalent.<br>
> Try Googling "geo:44.86294500,-87.23120400;u=10"<br>
> If the <a href="http://ietf.org" target="_blank">ietf.org</a> standard is supported in future versions of Virtuoso and<br>
> other tools then we would not need to include the redundant use of geo:lat<br>
> geo:long for the dynamic maps.<br>
> - Pete<br>
><br>
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Bob Morris <<a href="mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com" target="_blank">morris.bob@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Your arguably reasonable recoding of the geo uri's of your example<br>
>> illustrates an issue on which so much metadata is silent: provenance. Once<br>
>> exposed, it is probably impossible for someone to know how the uncertainty<br>
>> (or any other data that might be the subject of opinion or estimate) was<br>
>> determined and whether the data is fit for some particular purpose, e.g.<br>
>> that the species were observed near each other.<br>
>> BTW, the IETF geo proposal was adopted in 2010, in the final form given<br>
>> at <a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870" target="_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870</a> . One interesting point<br>
>> is <a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870#section-3.4.3" target="_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870#section-3.4.3</a> which says<br>
>> "Note: The number of digits of the values in <coordinates> MUST NOT be<br>
>> interpreted as an indication to the level of uncertainty." The section<br>
>> following is also interesting, albeit irrelevant for your procedure. It<br>
>> implies that when uncertainty is omitted (and therefore unknown), then<br>
>> "geo:41.53000000,-70.67000000" and "geo:41.53,-70.67" identify the same<br>
>> geo resource.<br>
>><br>
>> Bob Morris<br>
>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Peter DeVries <<a href="mailto:pete.devries@gmail.com" target="_blank">pete.devries@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> [...]<br>
>>><br>
>>> 5) I added in my proposed "area" so that it is easy to see what species<br>
>>> were observed near each other. Since there was no measure of radius in these<br>
>>> longitude and latitudes I made the radius 100 meters.<br>
>>> Normally I would estimate the radius for a GPS reading to be within<br>
>>> 10 meters but some of these observations were made where the GPS reading was<br>
>>> taken and the readings were given only to two decimals.<br>
>>> Area = long, lat; radius in meters following the ietf proposal but with<br>
>>> the precision of the long and lat standardized<br>
>>> example "geo:41.53000000,-70.67000000;u=100"<br>
>>> [...]<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Robert A. Morris<br>
>> Emeritus Professor of Computer Science<br>
>> UMASS-Boston<br>
>> 100 Morrissey Blvd<br>
>> Boston, MA 02125-3390<br>
>> Associate, Harvard University Herbaria<br>
>> email: <a href="mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com" target="_blank">morris.bob@gmail.com</a><br>
>> web: <a href="http://efg.cs.umb.edu/" target="_blank">http://efg.cs.umb.edu/</a><br>
>> web: <a href="http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush" target="_blank">http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram" target="_blank">http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram</a><br>
>> phone (+1) 857 222 7992 (mobile)<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> Pete DeVries<br>
> Department of Entomology<br>
> University of Wisconsin - Madison<br>
> 445 Russell Laboratories<br>
> 1630 Linden Drive<br>
> Madison, WI 53706<br>
> TaxonConcept Knowledge Base / GeoSpecies Knowledge Base<br>
> About the GeoSpecies Knowledge Base<br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
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><br>
><br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div>-- <br><div class="im">Robert A. Morris<br>Emeritus Professor of Computer Science<br>UMASS-Boston<br>100 Morrissey Blvd<br>Boston, MA 02125-3390<br>Associate, Harvard University Herbaria<br>
email: <a href="mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com" target="_blank">morris.bob@gmail.com</a><br>
web: <a href="http://efg.cs.umb.edu/" target="_blank">http://efg.cs.umb.edu/</a><br>web: <a href="http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush" target="_blank">http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush</a><br><a href="http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram" target="_blank">http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram</a><br>
phone (+1) 857 222 7992 (mobile)<br><br>
</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>---------------------------------------------------------------<br>Pete DeVries<br>Department of Entomology<br>University of Wisconsin - Madison<br>445 Russell Laboratories<br>
1630 Linden Drive<br>Madison, WI 53706<br><a href="http://www.taxonconcept.org/" target="_blank">TaxonConcept Knowledge Base</a> / <a href="http://lod.geospecies.org/" target="_blank">GeoSpecies Knowledge Base</a><br><a href="http://about.geospecies.org/" target="_blank">About the GeoSpecies Knowledge Base</a><br>
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