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<title>Sp2k / ITIS / CoL / Plant List / Index Fungorum / PaleoDB / LSPN /
ZooBank / IRMNG etc… - Towards an Index of All Life </title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Greg, Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I checked versions 3 and 4 of HISPID and
the intended hybrid indicator “x” is given as lowercase, not
uppercase, so your display code may be fine, just have to fix the content :-) –
actually as stated by Paul (Holland) and the ICBN, it needs to be replaced by a
multiplication symbol for display anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Re 12 million people can’t be wrong –
maybe they can, if the latest sales figures for Andre Rieu live in concert DVDs
are anything to go by. (apologies to any A.R. lovers out there – just kidding
of course)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>On a more serious note – presumably those
12 million downloads were not machine-machine transactions where hybrid
nomenclature was ever checked, or the downloaders cared particularly about
compliance with the Code or other standards, or reconciling content from
multiple sources – not an attitude we would encourage on this list,
surely!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Cheers - Tony<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tony Rees<br>
Manager, Divisional Data Centre,<br>
CSIRO Marine and Atmospheric Research,<br>
GPO </span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><ns0:address w:insAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)"
w:insDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)"
w:endInsDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"><ns0:Street
w:insAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)" w:insDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"
w:endInsAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)" w:endInsDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"><st1:address
w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'>Box</span></font></st1:Street></ns0:Street></st1:address><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'> 1538,</span></font></ns0:address><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font><ns0:place w:insAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)"
w:insDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)"
w:endInsDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"><ns0:City
w:insAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)" w:insDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"
w:endInsAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)" w:endInsDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'>Hobart</span></font></ns0:City><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'>, </span></font><ns0:State
w:insAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)" w:insDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"
w:endInsAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)" w:endInsDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'>Tasmania</span></font></ns0:State></ns0:place><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'> 7001, </span></font><ns0:country-region
w:insAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)" w:insDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"
w:endInsAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)" w:endInsDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"><ns0:place
w:insAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)" w:insDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"
w:endInsAuthor="Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)" w:endInsDate="2010-12-13T09:21:00Z"><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'>Australia</span></font></ns0:place></ns0:country-region><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><br>
Ph: 0362 325318 (Int: +61 362 325318)<br>
Fax: 0362 325000 (Int: +61 362 325000)</span></font></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>e-mail: <a
href="mailto:Tony.Rees@csiro.au" title="mailto:Tony.Rees@csiro.au">Tony.Rees@csiro.au</a><br>
Manager, OBIS Australia regional node, <a href="http://www.obis.org.au/">http://www.obis.org.au/</a><br>
Biodiversity informatics research activities: <a
href="http://www.cmar.csiro.au/datacentre/biodiversity.htm">http://www.cmar.csiro.au/datacentre/biodiversity.htm</a><br>
Personal info: <a
href="http://www.fishbase.org/collaborators/collaboratorsummary.cfm?id=1566"
title="http://www.fishbase.org/collaborators/collaboratorsummary.cfm?id=1566">http://www.fishbase.org/collaborators/collaboratorsummary.cfm?id=1566</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
whitbread.greg@gmail.com [mailto:whitbread.greg@gmail.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>greg whitbread<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, 12 December 2010
10:44 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> pmurray@anbg.gov.au;
tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [tdwg-content]
canonical name for named hybrid & infragenericnames [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]</span></font><span
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Tony,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>A mix up in the method generating APNI name strings reusing the HISPID
hybrid indicator code for named hybrid - 'X' . Now fixed. Perhaps more
interesting is that this method has been in place since 1992 and while, since
then, the APNI web interface has addressed c. 12 million download
requests not one of them has resulted in a complaint about the style of the
hybrid indicator. I wonder if anybody cares.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>One complaint that we do have though is that hybrid indicator upsets
searching and sorting at least for named generic hybrids. It seems that users
of the data would like to see it separated from the name string completely.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>greg<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 12 December 2010 08:10, <Tony.Rees@csiro.au> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi Paul, all,<br>
<br>
Well, if the existing ANBG software code is displaying the hybrid symbol as an
uppercase rather than a lowercase "x", then I would say there was
something wrong with it, since this usage is not supported by the ICBN.<br>
<br>
In any case, to summarise, a recipient / parser of incoming taxonomic names and
associated data must therefore be able to cope successfully with hybrid indicators
for genera in any of the following formats:<br>
<br>
×Foo (ICBN preferred usage as per examples)<br>
× Foo (apparently tolerated, since white space appears to be optional??)<br>
x Foo (ICBN preferred alternative)<br>
X Foo (apparently incorrect, but found in some quite reputable systems)<br>
xFoo (again, probably tolerated, but not sure...)<br>
<br>
have I missed anything? (e.g. "Goo × Hoo" or variants thereof?)<br>
<br>
I am also presuming that in all these cases, the equivalent canonical version
would be Foo. Does this mean that an extra DwC field would also be needed now,
for hybrid indicator?<br>
<br>
Regards - Tony<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Paul Murray [<a href="mailto:pmurray@anbg.gov.au">pmurray@anbg.gov.au</a>]<br>
Sent: Saturday, 11 December 2010 4:05 PM<br>
To: Rees, Tony (CMAR, Hobart)<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com">morris.bob@gmail.com</a>; <a
href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Subject: Re:
[tdwg-content] canonical name for named hybrid & infragenericnames [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 10/12/2010, at 5:47 PM, <Tony.Rees@csiro.au>
<Tony.Rees@csiro.au> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear all,<br>
><br>
> Paul Murray wrote:<br>
><br>
>> A generic name may be marked as a hybrid. It is rendered<br>
>> × Foo<br>
><br>
><br>
> Actually my understanding is that ×Foo is the Code-endorsed version:<br>
<br>
<br>
Hmm ... . Well, perhaps there's an issue with our existing (software) code.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.anbg.gov.au/cgi-bin/apni?taxon_id=272817" target="_blank">http://www.anbg.gov.au/cgi-bin/apni?taxon_id=272817</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anbg.gov.au/cgi-bin/apni?taxon_id=40429" target="_blank">http://www.anbg.gov.au/cgi-bin/apni?taxon_id=40429</a><br>
<br>
There are only 9 genera in APNI that look like this.<br>
X Cynochloris Clifford & Everist<br>
X Calassodia M.A.Clem.<br>
X Agropogon P.Fourn.<br>
X Chilosimpliglottis Jeanes<br>
X Vappaculum M.A.Clem. & D.L.Jones<br>
X Taurodium D.L.Jones & M.A.Clem.<br>
X Glossadenia Kavulak<br>
X Cyanthera Hopper & <a href="http://A.P.Br" target="_blank">A.P.Br</a>.<br>
X Festulolium Asch. & Graebn.<br>
<br>
Perhaps the issue is that it's a shade tricky to get it right if you have to
use the letter, and so we err on the side of caution and put spaces around the
genus name. Although a multiplication sign is preferred to an 'x', I believe
our powerbuilder interface was written back in the day before all this new-fangled
unicode. Or perhaps it's simply that getting Windows to do proper
multiplication signs involves explaining codepages to the windows oracle
client: a byzantine process at best, and one which involves getting Admin
access to the box. Hence the 'x'.<br>
<br>
(Once, ages ago, I got oracle sql-plus to work correctly on one Windows machine
on the departmental network, but we never did succeed in getting the machine
sitting right next to it to do umlauts properly. Our users addressed this issue
by inserting html escape codes into the data.)<br>
<br>
In any case - anyone looking to parse names into their components may encounter
something like this.<br>
<br>
Oh - here's some more:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.anbg.gov.au/cgi-bin/apni?taxon_id=257927" target="_blank">http://www.anbg.gov.au/cgi-bin/apni?taxon_id=257927</a><br>
xAstackea<br>
xAstackea 'Winter Pink'<br>
xChamecordia<br>
xChamecordia 'Eric John'<br>
xChamecordia 'Jasper'<br>
xChamecordia 'Southern Stars'<br>
xChamecordia 'Susie'<br>
xRhinochilus<br>
xRhinochilus 'Dorothy'<br>
<br>
I think that the issue is that these genera were only inserted into the data in
order to make it possible to construct the cultivar name. The genera are not
published scientific names at all - 'Chamecordia' doesn't appear anywhere as a
genus name except in these records (heck: even google has never heard of it),
but Wrigley, J. & Fagg, M. (2003) named the cultivars thusly, so we have to
jam them into the data somehow.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Greg Whitbread<br>
Australian National Botanic Gardens <br>
Australian National Herbarium<br>
+61 2 62509482<br>
<a href="mailto:ghw@anbg.gov.au">ghw@anbg.gov.au</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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