Hi Steve and Markus,<div><br></div><div>There are several levels to this so I will start with the advantages of the geo vocabulary.</div><div><br></div><div>What I am proposing is that we add this so people can use it if they want to but it would not be required.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Part 1: The geo vocabulary</div><div><br></div><div>The geo vocabulary is a widely understood standard that is supported by many tools.</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/">http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>If allows tools to properly interpret and map records as demonstrated by these SPARQL Query.</div><div><br></div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif">PREFIX txn: <<a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/txn.owl#">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/txn.owl#</a>></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif">PREFIX boloria_selene: <<a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ses/ICmLC#Species">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ses/ICmLC#Species</a>></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif">DESCRIBE ?x WHERE { </font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> ?x txn:occurrenceHasSpeciesConcept boloria_selene:.</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif">}</font></div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://bit.ly/ambJHX ">http://bit.ly/ambJHX </a><br></div><div>==</div><div><br></div><div>PREFIX txn: <<a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/txn.owl#">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/txn.owl#</a>></div>
<div>PREFIX boloria_selene: <<a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ses/ICmLC#Species">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ses/ICmLC#Species</a>></div><div><br></div><div>DESCRIBE ?x WHERE { </div><div> ?x txn:areaHasObservedSpeciesConcept boloria_selene:.</div>
<div>}</div></div><div><a href="http://bit.ly/bZwkRD ">http://bit.ly/bZwkRD </a><br></div><div><br></div><div>I am having some issues with my queries going directly to a pretty map but you should be able to tweek the queries above to give you something like the screen shot that is attached to this email.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Part 2 </div><div><br></div><div>Extending the geo vocabulary with a radius using a <a href="http://ietf.org">ietf.org</a> proposed standard.</div><div><br></div><div>The main problem with it is that it does not directly support an extent / radius / pointRadiusSpatialFit measure.</div>
<div><br></div><div>What I did in this example is that I extended the geo vocabulary to it included a radius measure, using the proposed ietf standard listed below</div><div><br></div><div>So it is no longer a Point but an "Area" - Which is an instance of the "Location" described by Markus.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Here is an example with some of the non-relevant stuff taken out.</div><div><br></div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><dwc_area:Area rdf:about="geo:44.86528100,-87.23147800;u=10"></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <dcterms:title>44.86528100, -87.23147800 Radius 10 meters</dcterms:title></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <dcterms:identifier>geo:44.86528100,-87.23147800;u=10</dcterms:identifier></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <dcterms:created>2010-10-28T00:00:00-0500</dcterms:created></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <dcterms:modified>2010-11-19T22:17:37-0600</dcterms:modified></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <geo:lat>44.86528100</geo:lat></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <geo:long>-87.23147800</geo:long></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <dwc_area:radius>10</dwc_area:radius></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <<meta charset="utf-8">dwc_area:areaWithInFeature rdf:resource="<a href="http://sws.geonames.org/5250768/">http://sws.geonames.org/5250768/</a>"/></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <wdrs:describedBy rdf:resource="<a href="http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9.rdf">http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9.rdf</a>"/></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"></dwc_area:Area></font></div></div><div><br></div><div>What I have done with my examples is standardized on a fixed precision to the lat and log. </div><div>
<br></div><div>The level of precision does not have be this high, we just need to have an agreed on level of precision.</div><div>(Probably something that we should do anyway since the actual precision should not be inferred by the significant digits.)</div>
<div><br></div><div>So Steve's <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">44.86,-87.23 => </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; ">44.86000000, </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">-87.23000000.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">Now we have a standard urn-like entity for an area that follows the proposed ietf standard.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">Other data like soil type, weather etc can be tied to these areas.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; "><meta charset="utf-8">Area1 => hasDegreeDayValue "2105"</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">Other areas can be related to this area Area1 within Area2, AreaB near AreaC etc.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">AreaZ within NaturePreserveB</span></div>
<meta charset="utf-8"><meta charset="utf-8"><meta charset="utf-8"><div><br></div><div>Also the following was recently proposed by the <a href="http://ietf.org">ietf.org</a></div><div><br></div><div><div><b>A Uniform Resource Identifier for Geographic Locations</b> ('geo' URI)</div>
<div><a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870">http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870</a> (from Sean Gillies)</div><div>* Not clear that all the systems understand this but URIburner and Virtuoso interprets these as a URN type thing so they work but are not understood in the way that the "geo" vocabulary is understood. Note that if and when this becomes a standard it will allow these "Areas" to be universally understood.</div>
<div> </div><div>What this means is that I can markup my 10,0000 mosquito records from one location with one URN type id.</div><div><b><br></b></div><div>In summary, these allow more efficient occurrence records that leverage the existing support for the geo vocabulary and the probably support for the <a href="http://ietf.org">ietf.org</a> standard.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I have added some predicate to the vocabulary that allow inferencing from the area through the geonames hierarchy.</div><div><br></div><div>This would allow one to infer the following about the record above.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Area ><b> </b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; ">areaWithInFeature => Door County => Wisconsin => United States => North America = Earth</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; ">This does not mean that additions could also be made that allow inferencing up some other non-geonames hierarchy.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; ">Here is the ontology <a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area.owl">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area.owl</a></span></div>
<div>Here is the owl doc <a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area_doc/index.html">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area_doc/index.html</a></div><meta charset="utf-8"><div><br></div><div>Here is an example of an occurrence record that uses this:</div>
<div><br></div><div>HTML <a href="http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9.html">http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9.html</a></div><div>RDF <a href="http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9.rdf">http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9.rdf</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>Respectfully,</div><div><br></div><div>- Pete</div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Steve Baskauf <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:steve.baskauf@vanderbilt.edu">steve.baskauf@vanderbilt.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Pete,<br>
I was going to ask questions about this the first time you mentioned
it, but got distracted. I guess the main question I have is: what you
would "do" with it? I guess it could be considered an identifier for a
spot on the earth, but based on what I've read about guids it's
considered to be a "no-no" to try to infer stuff about a resource by
looking at the form of the identifier. Rather one should look at the
metadata associated with the identifier to understand things about the
identifier (which you provide with geo:lat and geo:long). I suppose
that one could consider this to be some kind of identifier that could
be reused, but particularly since the precision of your lat and long
are 8 digits, it is highly unlikely that anybody besides you is ever
going to choose to use this identifier over (vs. 44.86,-87.23 which
would be imprecise enough to include a lot of places to which people
might want to refer). I may just be misunderstanding the purpose you
intend.<br>
<br>
The other question is a more general one. Do we need more ways to
specify uncertainty in location than we already have? We already have
dwc:coordinateUncertaintyInMeters and dwc:coordinatePrecision . I've
been using dwc:coordinateUncertaintyInMeters with a seat-of-the pants
estimate on my part about how accurate I think my geolocation is
(expressed in meters). That may be a misuse of this term because I'm
really thinking radius around a point rather than uncertainty of
coordinates. But as a practical matter, if I think my estimate of
location is good to 1000 m (vs. 100 m or 10000 m) does it really matter
if I'm talking about a square or a circle? In any case, I'm saying,
this lat/long could be off from the actual location by a km. If I had
a GPS receiver that allowed me to download the actual estimated
accuracy (based on satellite signals and whatever else), then I would
populate dwc:coordinateUncertaintyInMeters with that, but mine crummy
old one doesn't. To me the most important thing is for users to know
whether this is a ballpark estimate or if they could expect to actually
be able to walk up to the tree using the coordinates they give.<br>
<br>
Steve<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
Peter DeVries wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">I wrote about this earlier but I never heard anything back.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have made something that uses the geo vocabulary but also
allows pointRadiusSpatial fit measure that I call radius.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The advantage is that this adds a standard way to deal use
something like an extent or pointRadiusSpatial while still benefiting
from the widely used geo vocabulary.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It also allows these "Areas" to be referenced in a commonly
understood urn way that using a ietf standard.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For example: "<span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">geo:44.86528100,-87.23147800;u=10"</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are still some things I need to fix and check with this
vocabulary but I am wondering if there is any interest in incorporating
this into the DarwinCore.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If not I will probably change the name of the ontology.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are also things in the example below that are not part of
my proposal.</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">
<div><br>
I have what I call "Areas" that look like this:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <dwc_area:Area
rdf:about="geo:44.86528100,-87.23147800;u=10"></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<dcterms:title>44.86528100, -87.23147800 Radius 10
meters</dcterms:title></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <dcterms:isPartOf
rdf:resource="<a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/void#this" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 204)" target="_blank">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/void#this</a>"/></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<dcterms:identifier>geo:44.86528100,-87.23147800;u=10</dcterms:identifier></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<dcterms:created>2010-10-28T00:00:00-0500</dcterms:created></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<dcterms:modified>2010-11-09T16:33:34-0600</dcterms:modified></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<geo:lat>44.86528100</geo:lat></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<geo:long>-87.23147800</geo:long></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<dwc_area:radius>10</dwc_area:radius></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<txn:elevation>186.54</txn:elevation></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <txn:continent>North
America</txn:continent></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<txn:countryCode>US</txn:countryCode></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <txn:country>United
States</txn:country></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<txn:stateProvince>Wisconsin</txn:stateProvince></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<txn:county>Door</txn:county></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <txn:localityText>Town
of Sevastopol</txn:localityText></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<txn:locationName>Shivering Sands Natural Area
Woods</txn:locationName></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <txn:areaHasOccurrence
rdf:resource="<a href="http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9#Occurrence" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 204)" target="_blank">http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9#Occurrence</a>"/></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">
<txn:areaHasObservedSpeciesConcept rdf:resource="<a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ses/ICmLC#Species" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 204)" target="_blank">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ses/ICmLC#Species</a>"/></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <txn:areaHasIndividual
rdf:resource="<a href="http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9#Individual" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 204)" target="_blank">http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9#Individual</a>"/></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <txn:areaInStateProvince
rdf:resource="<a href="http://sws.geonames.org/5279468/" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 204)" target="_blank">http://sws.geonames.org/5279468/</a>"/></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <txn:areaInCounty
rdf:resource="<a href="http://sws.geonames.org/5250768/" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 204)" target="_blank">http://sws.geonames.org/5250768/</a>"/></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> <wdrs:describedBy
rdf:resource="<a href="http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9.rdf" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 204)" target="_blank">http://ocs.taxonconcept.org/ocs/f522444a-2dd9-400e-be59-47213ef38cb9.rdf</a>"/></font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> </dwc_area:Area></font></div>
</div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">I recently added the following
predicates, but have not altered my RDF examples.</font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
</span></div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">
<div>#featureContainsArea</div>
<div>#areaWithInFeature</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area.owl" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 204)" target="_blank">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area.owl</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>OWL Doc <a href="http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area_doc/index.html" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 204)" target="_blank">http://lod.taxonconcept.org/ontology/dwc_area_doc/index.html</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The predicates are a bit awkward, but I wanted to be clear that
this was to link an "Area" like <span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">"geo:44.86528100,-87.23147800;u=10" </span>to
a Geonames "Feature".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I thought a different set of predicates could be created to deal
with some other class of "SpatialThing" if needed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Respectfully,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Pete</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>---------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Pete DeVries<br>
Department of Entomology<br>
University of Wisconsin - Madison<br>
445 Russell Laboratories<br>
1630 Linden Drive<br>
Madison, WI 53706<br>
<a href="http://www.taxonconcept.org/" target="_blank">TaxonConcept Knowledge Base</a> / <a href="http://lod.geospecies.org/" target="_blank">GeoSpecies Knowledge Base</a><br>
<a href="http://about.geospecies.org/" target="_blank">About the GeoSpecies Knowledge Base</a><br>
------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div><pre cols="72">--
Steven J. Baskauf, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer
Vanderbilt University Dept. of Biological Sciences
postal mail address:
VU Station B 351634
Nashville, TN 37235-1634, U.S.A.
delivery address:
2125 Stevenson Center
1161 21st Ave., S.
Nashville, TN 37235
office: 2128 Stevenson Center
phone: (615) 343-4582, fax: (615) 343-6707
<a href="http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu" target="_blank">http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu</a>
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>---------------------------------------------------------------<br>Pete DeVries<br>Department of Entomology<br>University of Wisconsin - Madison<br>445 Russell Laboratories<br>
1630 Linden Drive<br>Madison, WI 53706<br><a href="http://www.taxonconcept.org/" target="_blank">TaxonConcept Knowledge Base</a> / <a href="http://lod.geospecies.org/" target="_blank">GeoSpecies Knowledge Base</a><br><a href="http://about.geospecies.org/" target="_blank">About the GeoSpecies Knowledge Base</a><br>
------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>