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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=590124904-03112010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Good point -- I agree.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
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<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> gtuco.btuco@gmail.com
[mailto:gtuco.btuco@gmail.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>John
Wieczorek<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 02, 2010 6:31 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
Richard Pyle<BR><B>Cc:</B> Steve Baskauf;
tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [tdwg-content] Treatise on
Occurrence, tokens, and basisOfRecord [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>I like Organism, but I don't like the inconsistency it would make
with individualID and individualCount on the one hand, or extra work to change
these to organismID and organismCount on the other. Individual doesn't carry
these extra burdens, and could be added without breaking any existing
applications.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Richard Pyle <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:deepreef@bishopmuseum.org">deepreef@bishopmuseum.org</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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class=gmail_quote>
<DIV text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>I think
the only alternative to "Individual" that has been floated, and might be
more appropriate, is "Organism". In my mind, at least, the word
"Organism" can apply equally to a single cell, or a single multicellular
organism, or a group of individuals, or a colony, or a population, or even a
taxon. The advantage it has over "Individual" is that is more clearly
related to the biology domain (not to be confused with other things called
"Individual" in other domains), and also "Individual" might lead people to
assume that gorups and populations and such are not within
scope.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>I don't
feel strongly about it either way -- it's just a
suggestion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>Rich</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
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dir=ltr>
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<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org"
target=_blank>tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org"
target=_blank>tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Steve Baskauf<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 02, 2010 5:21
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:tuco@berkeley.edu"
target=_blank>tuco@berkeley.edu</A>
<DIV class=im><BR><B>Cc:</B> <A href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org"
target=_blank>tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[tdwg-content] Treatise on Occurrence, tokens, and basisOfRecord
[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]<BR></DIV></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV></DIV>John,<BR>Thanks for the suggestion. It is appropriate
given the clarification that has been made through the course of the
discussion on this list. I have created a revised term definition
and comments at <A
href="http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/issues/detail?id=69"
target=_blank>http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/issues/detail?id=69</A>
.<BR><BR>With regards to the actual term name, I don't have any better
idea. If someone has a suggestion, perhaps they can post it to the
list for comment.<BR>Steve<BR><BR>John Wieczorek wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Steve,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Can you add a comment to Issue 69 in which you state the updated
term recommendation for the following?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Definition:</DIV>
<DIV>Comment:</DIV>
<DIV>Refines:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>It might also be a good time to decide if Individual as a term name
is equally offensive to all. Sure, it doesn't capture exactly all of the
things an Individual might be, but the same is true of almost every term
name - people should always consult the definitions, comments, and
secondary documentation.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Steve Baskauf
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:steve.baskauf@vanderbilt.edu"
target=_blank>steve.baskauf@vanderbilt.edu</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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class=gmail_quote>
<DIV text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">OK, I'm going to respectfully
disagree here. dwc:Individual is not "overloaded" any more than
dwc:class is overloaded. We know that dwc:class does not mean
the same thing as "class" in RDF or Java because the term name is <A
href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/class"
target=_blank>http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/class</A>, not
"class". We know that the proposed dwc:Individual has a specific
meaning because it would be <A
href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/Individual"
target=_blank>http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/Individual</A> and not
"individual" in the sense of OWL or RDF or anything else.
<BR><BR>The problem here is not lack of a clear definition for the
proposed DwC class dwc:Individual . That thing has been defined
to death, having been the subject of an entire published paper
(Biodiversity Informatics 7:17-44), and having its definition restated
at least three times in this thread. The problem is people
entering the thread without being aware that it's been defined or
having not read any of the definitions (I'm not trying to be rude
here, I'm just observing that this has happened several times in the
thread). So one last time, I'll define what I intend for
dwc:Individual to mean ("taxon" here means terminal taxon, species,
ssp., or var.):<BR><BR>Layman's definition: a representative of
a single taxon that serves to connect one or more dwc:Occurrences to
one or more dwc:Identifications.<BR><BR>More technical definition: a
resource representing a single taxon that serves as a node (sensu RDF)
connecting one or more instances of the class dwc:Occurrence to one or
instances of the class dwc:Identification . <BR><BR>These are
functional definitions - they define what dwc:Individual "does" not
what dwc:Individual "is". What dwc:Individual "is" is anything
that fits the definition. Thus a biological individual can be a
dwc:Individual, as can a clump of moss. The mixed-species
content of a pitfall trap cannot be an individual because it does not
represent a single taxon. Groups of biological individuals that
are too large to know for sure that they are a single taxon probably
shouldn't be considered a dwc:Individual. <BR><BR>I would be
perfectly happy with changing the term name from "Individual" to
something else as long as the definition of its purpose doesn't change
and as long as dwc:individualID and the proposed dwc:individualRemarks
are changed to match. <BR><BR>Leaving the term undefined and
axiomatic is not an option. We have a proposal for a term
addition to DwC (<A
href="http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/issues/detail?id=69"
target=_blank>http://code.google.com/p/darwincore/issues/detail?id=69</A>)
that's been on the table for nine months and I've essentially "called
for the question" on the proposal. So unless somebody has
something to add that's different from what has already been discussed
at great length, let's move on.<BR><BR>Steve
<DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>Paul Murray wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>What exactly is an individual? A flock? A herd? A breading pair? A
colony? A clonal stand?
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>One or more members of a class, for example, the class defined as all
members of a taxon.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>We'll have to add "individual" to the list of overloaded terms.
In the world of taxonomy and specimen curation, it apparently possibly means various things (perhaps "living things you can count"? "Living things that are identifiably the same thing from one day to another"? The boundaries of individuals are sometimes wobbly.).
In the world of OWL and RDF, an individual is an unspecified something that can be the subject or object of a (object) property. Individuals can be named with URIs.
Perhaps, then, an individual is simply "A living thing that we are sufficiently interested in to identify as an individual". That is: essentially to leave the term undefined and axiomatic.
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</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV></DIV><PRE cols="72">--
Steven J. Baskauf, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer
Vanderbilt University Dept. of Biological Sciences
postal mail address:
VU Station B 351634
Nashville, TN 37235-1634, U.S.A.
delivery address:
2125 Stevenson Center
1161 21st Ave., S.
Nashville, TN 37235
office: 2128 Stevenson Center
phone: (615) 343-4582, fax: (615) 343-6707
<A href="http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu" target=_blank>http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu</A>
</PRE></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>tdwg-content
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org"
target=_blank>tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content"
target=_blank>http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE cols="72">--
Steven J. Baskauf, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer
Vanderbilt University Dept. of Biological Sciences
postal mail address:
VU Station B 351634
Nashville, TN 37235-1634, U.S.A.
delivery address:
2125 Stevenson Center
1161 21st Ave., S.
Nashville, TN 37235
office: 2128 Stevenson Center
phone: (615) 343-4582, fax: (615) 343-6707
<A href="http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu" target=_blank>http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu</A>
</PRE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>