<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Wow - what a thread to come back to.</div><div><br></div><div>I saw my name mentioned so I ought to chip in. I also think we are conflating two distinct things under the name "occurrence". </div><div><br></div><div>This point is largely just expanding on what Kevin just said. Going down the road he was wise enough not to go down!</div><div><br></div><div>The vocabulary I briefly presented at TDWG was aimed at occurrence of <b>taxa</b> in <b>regions</b> but the general thrust of my talk was intended to pose the questions: Why should we score taxa to regions at all? Shouldn't this always be the results of a query on occurrence records? The answer will always depend on the question asked.</div><div><br></div><div>Take two examples.</div><div><br></div><div>A tiger roaming "free" in London living off a diet of squirrels and tourists. Occurrence records for this organism are just occurrence records. Why the tiger is in London (climate change, introduction, invasion, escape) is not a quality of it being there. They are value judgements added later.</div><div><br></div><div>A tiger sitting in a cage a London Zoo is "managed" in that it is being maintained there by a human effort. We are recording the fact that someone has placed it there and held it in that position for our edification.</div><div><br></div><div>As Kevin says, when I observe an individual (or flock of individuals) I do not observe their "introducedness" or their "nativeness" this is something that is derived from combining multiple observations of occurrence of individuals.</div><div><br></div><div>I would therefore advocate that we just have a flag on an occurrence record that says "intended for distribution" i.e. this is not maintained here in a garden/zoo/farm etc. To say any more on a occurrence record is misleading and there are occasions when even this flag will be ignored in analysis. I think we already have this field.</div><div><br></div><div>There are of course grey areas (biology always has grey areas). A Scots Pine growing in the highlands may be part of a 150 year old naturalistic plantation. It is therefore native to the region, possibly of local genetic stock but has been planted in that position. For some applications this could be considered managed and for others not.</div><div><br></div><div>The status of taxa in regions is a completely different thing. As soon as we talk about aggregating multiple observations (or lack of them) then we are talking about the results of analysis instead of primary observations. Only at this point should we be talking about the status of the "occurrence" in terms of native/invasive/naturalised etc. This may not even be based on extant records. For example, a taxon can be invasive in an area without actually occurring there. i.e. it used to be there but is presumed to be irradiated.</div><div><br></div><div>Does the problem occur because we are using the same term "occurrence" to mean both a primary unit of data gathering <b>and</b> the result of an analysis (possibly even just a hypothesis if it is the result of niche modelling)? How could we differentiate between these two? The discussion probably comes back to 'basisOfRecord' again and our fundamental classes of object. </div><div><br></div><div>Sorry to be long winded. </div><div><br></div><div>Roger</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On 12 Oct 2010, at 09:36, Kevin Richards wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>I also have always felt that "nativeness" should apply more to an occurrence than a taxon, but have swayed from one opinion to the other on a regular basis. So my conclusion is that "nativeness" is a propety of both, and require both, in a way - and that these different perspectives are actually the same thing.<br><br>Eg, if we describe (in a basic way) :<br>Ocurrence = Taxon at Location<br><br>then if we say that Nativeness is a property of a Taxon that is restricted by Location (jerry's view)<br>then this is equivalent to saying that Nativeness is a property of an Ocurrence ! (Rich's view)<br><br>As Rich points out, it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to apply Nativeness to a single occurrence, but I'm not sure this is what is meant by stating that "this specimen of Poa anceps that I collected from Christchurch is 'Native'" - but more that "I have found a specimen of Poa anceps in Christchurch and from knowledge of other previously recorded ocurrences, I know that this occurence/taxon is Native in this area"<br><br>Also I tend to feel that a lot of biodiversity properties are properties of ocurrences - EVEN taxon names are a property of an occurrence and not of this 'concept' of a species - but I wont go down that road right now :-)<br><br>Also, we discussed this topic a while ago on the tdwg content list, having worked out that "nativeness" or what we call "biostatus" is a fairly complicated topic, involving taxon names, locations, time, and aspects like 'origin' and 'presence', ...<br><br>Kevin<br><br>________________________________________<br>From: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</a> [tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Richard Pyle [deepreef@bishopmuseum.org]<br>Sent: Tuesday, 12 October 2010 5:41 p.m.<br>To: Jerry Cooper; <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a>; <a href="mailto:tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com">tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [tdwg-content] What I learned at the TechnoBioBlitz<br><br>Hi Jerry,<br><br>Before we agree to disagree, let me try to elaborate a bit more:<br><br>I think we both agree that "Nativeness" (to borrow Dave's term) is a<br>property of a taxon at a geographic locality (it could also be a property of<br>a taxon in a class of habitat, but few people actually frame it this way).<br><br>The reason I think that "Nativeness" is best represented as a property of an<br>Occurrence, rather than of a taxon, is that a taxon is a circumscribed set<br>of organisms, usually based on evolutionary relatedness or morphological or<br>genetic similarity. By contrast, an Occurrence is about the presence of a<br>member or multiple members of a taxon concept in space and time (i.e., at a<br>particular place and time).<br><br>We often think of Occurrence records in terms of individual organisms (e.g.,<br>specimens, or specific observed or photographed organisms), and I agree,<br>it's weird to think of "Nativeness" as it applies to an individual organism.<br>However, my understanding is that Occurrence instances can also apply to<br>populations -- which is what terms such as establishmentMeans and<br>occurrenceStatus fit into this class.<br><br>More generally, if we agree that "Nativeness" is a property of a taxon at a<br>particular locality, the way that this intersection is usually manifest in<br>DwC is via Occurrence and Event instances.<br><br>How else would you represent "Nativeness" within DwC?<br><br>Aloha,<br>Rich<br><br><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Cooper<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 6:02 PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a>; <a href="mailto:tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com">tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [tdwg-content] What I learned at the TechnoBioBlitz<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">We will have to agree to disagree.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">For me at least 'Native', 'Invasive' etc are clearly not<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">properties associated with a collection event. They are<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">collective statements, not necessarily about properties of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the taxon as a whole, but about the properties of a taxon in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">some restricted sense - usually geographically restricted.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">GISIN, like our model here in NZ, pulls together such items<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">under a triplet of taxon/occurrence statement/geographical<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">extent linked to a publication.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Jerry<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: Richard Pyle [mailto:deepreef@bishopmuseum.org]<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Tuesday, 12 October 2010 4:23 p.m.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: Jerry Cooper<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Cc: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a>; <a href="mailto:tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com">tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: RE: [tdwg-content] What I learned at the TechnoBioBlitz<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Hi Jerry,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Yes, this is a road I've been down before. Intuitively,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">these terms seem like they should apply to taxon concepts,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">but it turns out that's not the right way to do it. Things<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">like "native" and "invasive" are not properties of taxon<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">concepts; they're the property of an occurrence (which, I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">suspect, is why establishmentMeans is included in the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Occurrence class in DwC; e.g., see the examples at<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#establishmentMeans">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#establishmentMeans</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Rich<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> From: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Cooper<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 4:38 PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Cc: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a>;<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com">tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Subject: Re: [tdwg-content] What I learned at the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">TechnoBioBlitz<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Rich,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Let's not confuse those terms which are best applied<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to a taxon concept rather than a specific<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">collection/observation of a taxon at a location.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> There are existing vocabularies for taxon-related<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">provenance, like those in GISIN, or the vocabulary Roger<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">mentioned in his PESI talk at TDWG.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> However, against a specific collection you can only<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">record what the recorder actually knows at that location for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that specific collected taxon, and not to infer a status like<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">'introduced' etc.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> So, to me, the vocabulary reduces even further - and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the obvious ones are 'in cultivation', 'in captivity',<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">'border intercept' . Our botanical collection management<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">system would hold more data on provenance of a specific<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">collection and linkages between events - from the wild at t=1,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">x=1 to cultivation in botanic garden Y at t=2, X=2 etc. But<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">then we often have that data because we are generating it.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Jerry<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> From: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of Richard Pyle<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Sent: Tuesday, 12 October 2010 3:27 p.m.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To: <a href="mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au">Donald.Hobern@csiro.au</a>; <a href="mailto:tuco@berkeley.edu">tuco@berkeley.edu</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Cc: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a>;<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com">tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Subject: Re: [tdwg-content] What I learned at the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">TechnoBioBlitz<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> I certainly agree it's important! I was just saying<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that a simple flag probably wouldn't be enough. I like the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">idea of a controlled vocabulary (as you and John both allude<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to), and I can imagine about a half-dozen terms that our<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">community will no-doubt adopt with almost no debate..... :-)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> In my mind, the broadest categories (and likely most<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">useful) would be something like:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Native (was there without any assistance from humans)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Introduced (got there with the assistance of humans,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">but is inhabiting the natural environment)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Captive (brought by humans and still maintained in captivity)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> You might also throw in "Cryptogenic", which is an<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">assertion that we do not know which of these categories a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">particular organism falls (not the same as null, which means<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">we don't know whether or not we know)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Of course, each of these can be further subdivded,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">but the more we subdivide, the greater the ratio of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">fuzzy:clean distinctions. I would say that the terms should<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">be established in consultation with those most likely to use<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">them (e.g., as you suggest, distribution analysis, niche modellers,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">etc.) For example, it might be useful to distinguish between<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">an organism that was itself introduced, compared to the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">progeny (or a well-established<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">population) of an intoduced organism. This information can be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">useful for separating things likely to become established in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">new localities, vs. things that do not seem to "take" in a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">novel environment.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Anyway...I didn't want to say a lot on this topic<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(too late?); I just wanted to steer more towards controlled<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">vocabulary, than simple flag field.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Aloha,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Rich<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> ________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> From: <a href="mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au">Donald.Hobern@csiro.au</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au]<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:44 PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To: Richard Pyle; <a href="mailto:tuco@berkeley.edu">tuco@berkeley.edu</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Cc: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a>;<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com">tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Subject: RE: [tdwg-content] What I learned at<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the TechnoBioBlitz<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Hi Rich.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> I recognise this (and could probably define<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">many different useful flags). The bottom line is really<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">whether or not the location is one which should be used for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">distribution analysis, niche modelling and similar<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">activities. There will certainly be many grey areas, but it<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">would be good if software could weed out captive occurrences.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Donald<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> untitled<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Donald Hobern, Director, Atlas of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Living Australia<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> CSIRO Ecosystem Sciences, GPO Box 1700,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Canberra, ACT 2601<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Phone: (02) 62464352 Mobile: 0437990208<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Email: <a href="mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au">Donald.Hobern@csiro.au</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au">mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Web: <a href="http://www.ala.org.au/">http://www.ala.org.au/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> From: Richard Pyle [mailto:deepreef@bishopmuseum.org]<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Sent: Tuesday, 12 October 2010 12:33 PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To: Hobern, Donald (CES, Black Mountain);<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:tuco@berkeley.edu">tuco@berkeley.edu</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Cc: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a>;<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com">tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Subject: RE: [tdwg-content] What I learned at<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the TechnoBioBlitz<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> I'm not so sure a simple flag will do it. We<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">have examples ranging from animals in zoos, to escaped<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">animals, to intentionally and unintentionally introduced<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">populations, to naturalized populations -- and just about<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">everything in-between. Where on this spectrum would you draw<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the line for flagging something as "naturally occurring"?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Rich<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> ________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> From:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au">Donald.Hobern@csiro.au</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 2:59 PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To: <a href="mailto:tuco@berkeley.edu">tuco@berkeley.edu</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Cc: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a>;<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com">tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Subject: Re: [tdwg-content] What I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">learned at the TechnoBioBlitz<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Thanks, John.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> This is useful, but completely<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">uncontrolled - effectively a verbatimEstablishmentMeans.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Having a more controlled version or a simple flag which could<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">be machine-processible in those cases where providers can<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">supply it would be useful.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Donald<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> untitled<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Donald Hobern, Director,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Atlas of Living Australia<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> CSIRO Ecosystem Sciences, GPO Box<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">1700, Canberra, ACT 2601<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Phone: (02) 62464352 Mobile: 0437990208<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Email: <a href="mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au">Donald.Hobern@csiro.au</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au">mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Web: <a href="http://www.ala.org.au/">http://www.ala.org.au/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> From: <a href="mailto:gtuco.btuco@gmail.com">gtuco.btuco@gmail.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:gtuco.btuco@gmail.com] On Behalf Of John Wieczorek<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Sent: Tuesday, 12 October 2010 11:34 AM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To: Hobern, Donald (CES, Black Mountain)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Cc: <a href="mailto:jsachs@csee.umbc.edu">jsachs@csee.umbc.edu</a>;<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com">tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com</a>; <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Subject: Re: [tdwg-content] What I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">learned at the TechnoBioBlitz<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Natural occurrence is meant to be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">captured through the term dwc:establishmentMeans<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(<a href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#establishmentMeans">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#establishmentMeans</a>).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 5:16 PM,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au">Donald.Hobern@csiro.au</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Thanks, Joel.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Nice summary. One addition which we<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">do need to resolve (and which has been suggested in recent<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">months) is to have a flag to indicate whether a record should<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">be considered to show a "natural"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">occurrence (in distinction from cultivation, botanic gardens,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">zoos, etc.).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">This is not so much an issue in a BioBlitz, but is certainly<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">a factor with citizen science recording in general - see the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">number of zoo animals in the Flickr EOL group.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Donald<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Donald Hobern, Director, Atlas of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Living Australia<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> CSIRO Ecosystem Sciences, GPO Box<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">1700, Canberra, ACT 2601<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Phone: (02) 62464352 Mobile: 0437990208<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Email: <a href="mailto:Donald.Hobern@csiro.au">Donald.Hobern@csiro.au</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Web: <a href="http://www.ala.org.au/">http://www.ala.org.au/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> -----Original Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> From: <a href="mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:tdwg-content-bounces@lists.tdwg.org] On Behalf Of joel sachs<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Sent: Monday, 11 October 2010 10:47 PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To: <a href="mailto:tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com">tdwg-bioblitz@googlegroups.com</a>;<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Subject: [tdwg-content] What I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">learned at the TechnoBioBlitz<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> One of the goals of the recent<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">bioblitz was to think about the suitability and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">appropriatness of TDWG standards for citizen science. Robert<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Stevenson has volunteered to take the lead on preparing a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">technobioblitz lessons learned document, and though the scope<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of this document is not yet determined, I think the audience<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">will include bioblitz organizers, software developers, and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">TDWG as a whole. I hope no one is shy about sharing lessons<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">they think they learned, or suggestions that they have. We<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">can use the bioblitz google group for this discussion, and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">copy in tdwg-content when our discussion is standards-specific.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Here are some of my immediate observations:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 1. Darwin Core is almost exactly<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">right for citizen science. However, there is a desperate need<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for examples and templates of its use. To illustrate this<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">need: one of the developers spoke of the design choice<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">between "a simple csv file and a Darwin Core record". But a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">simple csv file is a legitimate representation of Darwin<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Core! To be fair to the developer, such a sentence might not<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">have struck me as absurd a year ago, before Remsen said<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"let's use DwC for the bioblitz".<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> We provided a couple of example DwC<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">records (text and rdf) in the bioblitz data profile [1]. I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">think the lessons learned document should include an on-line<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">catalog of cut-and-pasteable examples covering a variety of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">use cases, together with a dead simple desciption of DwC,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">something like "Darwin Core is a collection of terms,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">together with definitions."<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Here are areas where we augemented or<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">diverged from DwC in the bioblitz:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> i. We added obs:observedBy [2], since<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">there is no equivalent property in DwC, and it's important in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Citizen Science (though often not available).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> ii. We used geo:lat and geo:long [3]<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">instead of DwC terms for latitude and longitude. The geo<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">namespace is a well used and supported standard, and records<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with geo coordinates are automatically mapped by several<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">applications. Since everyone was using GPS to retrieve their<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">coordinates, we were able to assume WGS-84 as the datum.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> If someone had used another Datum,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">say XYZ, we would have added columns to the Fusion table so<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that they could have expressed their coordiantes in DwC, as, e.g.:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> DwC:decimalLatitude=41.5<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> DwC:decimalLongitude=-70.7<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> DwC:geodeticDatum=XYZ<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> (I would argue that it should be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">kosher DwC to express the above as simply XYZ:lat and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">XYZ:long. DwC already incorporates terms from other<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">namespaces, such as Dublin Core, so there is precedent for this.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 2. DwC:scientificName might be more<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">user friendly than taxonomy:binomial and the other taxonomy<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">machine tags EOL uses for flickr images. If<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">DwC:scientificName isn't self-explanatory enough, a user can<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">look it up, and see that any scientific name is acceptable,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">at any taxonomic rank, or not having any rank. And once we<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">have a scientific name, higher ranks can be inferred.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 3. Catalogue of Life was an important<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">part of the workflow, but we had some problems with it.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Future bioblitzes might consider using something like a CoL<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">fork, as recently described by Rod Page [4].<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 4. We didn't include "basisOfRecord"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">in the original data profile, and so it wasn't a column in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the Fusion Table [5]. But when a transcriber felt it was<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">necessary to include in order to capture data in a particular<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">field sheet, she just added the column to the table. This<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">flexibility of schema is important, and is in harmony with<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the semantic web.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 5. There seemed to be enthusiasm for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">another field event at next year's TDWG. This could be an<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">opportunity to gather other types of data (eg.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> character data) and thereby<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> i) expose meeting particpants to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">another set of everyday problems from the world of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">biodiversity workflows, and ii) try other TDWG technology on<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for size, e.g. the observation exchange format, annotation<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">framework, etc.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Happy Thanksgiving to all in Canada -<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Joel.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> ----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 1.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://groups.google.com/group/tdwg-bioblitz/web/tdwg-bioblitz">http://groups.google.com/group/tdwg-bioblitz/web/tdwg-bioblitz</a><br></blockquote>-profile-v1-1<br><blockquote type="cite"> 2. Slightly bastardizing our old<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">observation ontology -<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://spire.umbc.edu/ontologies/Observation.owl">http://spire.umbc.edu/ontologies/Observation.owl</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 3. <a href="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/">http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 4.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://iphylo.blogspot.com/2010/10/replicating-and-forking-dat">http://iphylo.blogspot.com/2010/10/replicating-and-forking-dat</a><br></blockquote>a-in-2010.html<br><blockquote type="cite"> 5.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://tables.googlelabs.com/DataSource?dsrcid=248798">http://tables.googlelabs.com/DataSource?dsrcid=248798</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> tdwg-content mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content">http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> tdwg-content mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org">tdwg-content@lists.tdwg.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content">http://lists.tdwg.org/mailman/listinfo/tdwg-content</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Please consider the environment before printing this email<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Warning: This electronic message together with any<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">attachments is confidential. 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