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Roger,<br>
Thanks for the comments. At this point, I'm thinking about this from
the standpoint of GUID (HTTP URI/LSID) resolution rather than flat
databases. I am, of course, hampered by my lack of understanding of
exactly how the LSID resolution process works. According to the draft
LSID applicability statement, under the circumstance where LSIDs are
used, there would be a single identifier for GUID for something like a
digital image of a specimen. The metadata associated with the image
would be the metadata in the RDF file returned in response to a
getmetadata() call. The actual digital image would be the data that
would be returned in response to a getdata() call. If I'm
understanding this correctly, the image and its metadata are not things
that would be assigned separate persistent identifiers. It's not so
clear to me how this would work in the case of a generic HTTP URI:
identifier that was not a proxy for an LSID. The GUID applicability
statement makes the distinction between data and metadata in section 4
("Machine and human clients that retrieve the metadata associated with
a GUID will use the associated typing information to decide how to
process the metadata and any associated data. ") and specifies that the
default format for metadata should be RDF. However, as far as I can
tell, the document is silent on the mechanism by which access
information for the actual data (an actual information resource itself
as opposed to its metadata) would specified to a semantic-web enabled
client. The working examples I've seen so far where HTTP URIs are used
as persistent identifiers have all been for non-information resources
(i.e. no data, only metadata). <br>
<br>
I suppose the actual answer from an RDF perspective would be to do
something similar to <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://biocol.org/collection/rdf/id/35115">http://biocol.org/collection/rdf/id/35115</a> and
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lod.geospecies.org/ses/4XSQO.rdf">http://lod.geospecies.org/ses/4XSQO.rdf</a> where metadata for the
identified resource and the metadata for the metadata are contained by
two separate XML wrappers with separate rdf:about attributes. Then
there could be separate dcterms:creator elements within each of the two
containers. The object of the rdf:about attribute for the resource
would be the LSID or persistent <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="HTTP:URI">HTTP:URI</a> of the object itself and the
object of the rdf:about attribute for the metadata could be the URI of
the rdf file. The URI for the rdf file would effectively be a separate
(nonGUID) identifier for the metadata, as you suggested must exist. <br>
<br>
The question of the meaning of dwc:recordedBy is still open, I guess.<br>
<br>
How about this? Contents of file
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://myherbarium.org/image/rdf/12345.rdf">http://myherbarium.org/image/rdf/12345.rdf</a> containing the metadata for
an image identified as urn:lsid:myherbarium.org:image:12345 of a
specimen identified as urn:lsid:myherbarium.org:vascular:12345<br>
<br>
<rdf:RDF><br>
<dwc:occurrenceID
rdf:about="urn:lsid:myherbarium.org:image:12345"><br>
<dcterms:creator
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://myherbarium.org/people/fred_photographer/foaf.rdf">"http://myherbarium.org/people/fred_photographer/foaf.rdf"</a>/><br>
<dcterms:created>2008-09-08T10:22:15-0600</dcterms:created><br>
<dcterms:type
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://purl.org/dc/dcmitype/StillImage">"http://purl.org/dc/dcmitype/StillImage"</a>/><br>
<dwc:recordedBy
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://myherbarium.org/people/joe_taxonomist/foaf.rdf">"http://myherbarium.org/people/joe_taxonomist/foaf.rdf"</a>/><br>
<dcterms:description>Image of herbarium specimen
urn:lsid:myherbarium.org:vascular:12345</dcterms:description><br>
... more metadata about the image...<br>
</dwc:occurrenceID><br>
<rdf:Description
rdf:about=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://myherbarium.org/image/rdf/12345.rdf">"http://myherbarium.org/image/rdf/12345.rdf"</a>><br>
<dcterms:creator>Joe Shmoe Memorial
Herbarium</dcterms:creator><br>
<dcterms:created>2008-09-08T12:01:33-0600</dcterms:created><br>
<dcterms:modified>2009-12-08T13:32:33-0600</dcterms:modified><br>
<dcterms:description>RDF formatted description of the
image urn:lsid:myherbarium.org:image:12345</dcterms:description><br>
<dcterms:language>en</dcterms:language><br>
... more metadata about the metadata ...<br>
</rdf:Description><br>
</rdf:RDF><br>
<br>
Contents of file <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://myherbarium.org/vascular/rdf/12345.rdf">http://myherbarium.org/vascular/rdf/12345.rdf</a>
containing
the metadata for a specimen identified as
urn:lsid:myherbarium.org:vascular:12345<br>
<br>
<rdf:RDF><br>
<dwc:occurrenceID
rdf:about="urn:lsid:myherbarium.org:vascular:12345"><br>
<dcterms:creator
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://myherbarium.org/people/joe_taxonomist/foaf.rdf">"http://myherbarium.org/people/joe_taxonomist/foaf.rdf"</a>/><br>
<dcterms:created>2008-07-02</dcterms:created><br>
<dcterms:type
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://purl.org/dc/dcmitype/PhysicalObject">"http://purl.org/dc/dcmitype/PhysicalObject"</a>/><br>
<dwc:recordedBy
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://myherbarium.org/people/joe_taxonomist/foaf.rdf">"http://myherbarium.org/people/joe_taxonomist/foaf.rdf"</a>/><br>
<dcterms:description>Herbarium specimen of Toxicodendron
radicans</dcterms:description><br>
<dwc:associatedMedia
rdf:resource=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://resolver.org/urn:lsid:myherbarium.org:image:12345">"http://resolver.org/urn:lsid:myherbarium.org:image:12345"</a>/><br>
... more metadata about the specimen...<br>
</dwc:occurrenceID><br>
<rdf:Description
rdf:about=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://myherbarium.org/vascular/rdf/12345.rdf">"http://myherbarium.org/vascular/rdf/12345.rdf"</a>><br>
<dcterms:creator>Joe Shmoe Memorial
Herbarium</dcterms:creator><br>
<dcterms:created>2008-09-08T12:01:30-0600</dcterms:created><br>
<dcterms:modified>2009-10-07T09:14:08-0600</dcterms:modified><br>
<dcterms:description>RDF formatted description of the
specimen
urn:lsid:myherbarium.org:vascular:12345</dcterms:description><br>
<dcterms:language>en</dcterms:language><br>
... more metadata about the metadata ...<br>
</rdf:Description><br>
</rdf:RDF><br>
<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
Roger Hyam wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:87DADB21-6315-47D5-9285-C6CC2431CF2E@mac.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Steve,
It sounds like you have a lack of IDs.
You always need at least two IDs to express anything. One is the ID of thing (the Occurrence) the other is the ID of the metadata for the occurrence (the occurrence record?). You can then say whether the dcterms:creator is describing the metadata (record) or the thing itself (event).
If you have a photo of the thing then you need at least one more ID to show that the dcterms:creator is the person who took the photo not the person who created the specimen or the person who created the metadata.
In a flat record you can't express all this without getting really in a twist with which object which field applies to. I guess ( and this is a guess) that is why dwc:recordedBy exists. It is really the creator of the record (in the sense of the biologist with a pencil) and not the creator of the digital record (as in the system that is publishing this thing on the web).
As the semantics get more complex one has to give up and go to regular RDF or risk adding more and more fields.
Just my two pence worth. John may have a more practical explanation.
All the best,
Roger
On 5 Dec 2009, at 13:08, Steve Baskauf wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">John et al.,
I have been pondering the difference of the use of the terms
dwc:recordedBy and dcterms:creator (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://purl.org/dc/terms/creator">http://purl.org/dc/terms/creator</a>).
dcterms:creator is defined as:
"An entity primarily responsible for making the resource."
dwc:recordedBy is defined as:
A list (concatenated and separated) of names of people, groups, or
organizations responsible for recording the original Occurrence. The
primary collector or observer, especially one who applies a personal
identifier (recordNumber), should be listed first.
Except for the one word "original" in dwc:recordedBy, I would believe
that these two terms would mean the same thing in the case of Occurrence
resources. In some cases, such as the collection of a physical specimen
or photographing a live organism, I think that they are the same thing.
The entity that creates the resource (specimen or image) is the same
entity that has recorded the Occurrence. However, in the situation
where a specimen is imaged, the resulting image resource would have a
dcterms:creator that was the person or institution that did the specimen
imaging, while according to the way that I read the definition,
dwc:recordedBy for the specimen image would have a value that specified
the collector of the specimen (not the photographer).
If I am correct in this interpretation, this distinction would be useful
in the case of images because it would allow for a simple mechanism to
distinguish between images that directly record the appearance of
individual organisms and images that are simply digital representations
of some other thing that records the appearance of an individual
organism, i.e. if dcterms:creator= =dwc:recordedBy then the resource was
collected directly from an organsim and if dcterms:creator
!=dwc:recordedBy then the resource might represent some other resource
that was collected directly from an organism.
I am not sure how this would apply in situations other than images. For
example, if a spider were collected and assigned a persistent
identifier, then later for a character documentation project the body
parts were separated and considered separate specimens with their own
identifiers, would the metadata for a leg specimen resource have
dcterms:creator as the person who made the leg prep and dwc:recordedBy
be the person who collected the spider?
Basically, I would like to know the intention of the use of the word
"original" in the definition of dwc:recordedBy.
Steve Baskauf
--
Steven J. Baskauf, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer
Vanderbilt University Dept. of Biological Sciences
postal mail address:
VU Station B 351634
Nashville, TN 37235-1634, U.S.A.
delivery address:
2125 Stevenson Center
1161 21st Ave., S.
Nashville, TN 37235
office: 2128 Stevenson Center
phone: (615) 343-4582, fax: (615) 343-6707
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu">http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Steven J. Baskauf, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer
Vanderbilt University Dept. of Biological Sciences
postal mail address:
VU Station B 351634
Nashville, TN 37235-1634, U.S.A.
delivery address:
2125 Stevenson Center
1161 21st Ave., S.
Nashville, TN 37235
office: 2128 Stevenson Center
phone: (615) 343-4582, fax: (615) 343-6707
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu">http://bioimages.vanderbilt.edu</a>
</pre>
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